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Snipers, Enemy Squad Sizes, and Rate of Fire

18 Jul 2015, 06:48 AM
#1
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

This is a suggestion to add a new modifier for use by Sniper units, squad-size based Rate of Fire. The purpose of this is to make them easier to balance against squads of different sizes. This is an issue because the Ostheer Sniper is too powerful against small squad sizes, but a standard nerf would make him useless against Soviet squads. Same with the Soviet Sniper, who is meant to be shooting Grenadiers, finding himself too slow on the trigger when facing down Panzerfusiliers.

I propose that Sniper Rate of Fire be based on the Squad Size of the unit they are targetting. The desired result is that a Soviet Sniper would take the same amount of time to kill a Panzerfusilier squad as they would to kill a Grenadier squad, thus making them equally useful against both.
18 Jul 2015, 07:05 AM
#2
avatar of HelpingHans
Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 1838 | Subs: 17

Thanks for the post but I would have to say I'm against this. Reasoning being, people chose to go for larger squads like Panzer Fusiliers or Osttruppen is order to counter sniper play. If your changes were implemented then there would be no point to choosing different squads.

As for the German sniper, he needs to have a fast firing rate as allied infantry is generally cheaper to reinforce that that of axis infantry. Furthermore since he is a one man unit there is more risk involved compared with the use of a Soviet sniper.
18 Jul 2015, 07:34 AM
#3
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

Thanks for the post but I would have to say I'm against this. Reasoning being, people chose to go for larger squads like Panzer Fusiliers or Osttruppen is order to counter sniper play. If your changes were implemented then there would be no point to choosing different squads.

As for the German sniper, he needs to have a fast firing rate as allied infantry is generally cheaper to reinforce that that of axis infantry. Furthermore since he is a one man unit there is more risk involved compared with the use of a Soviet sniper.


Part of the problem is that this won't be true for much longer. Rifleman squads already cost only 2 less mp per entity to replace than grenadiers, making the Ostheer sniper amazing against USF. However, USF has 5 man squads, so they at least won't be bleeding map presence as well. The UKF however... (Everyone should go look at the released screenshots and see the British Infantry)
18 Jul 2015, 07:35 AM
#4
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

As for the German sniper, he needs to have a fast firing rate as allied infantry is generally cheaper to reinforce that that of axis infantry.


(Myself) *Whistles akwardly, thinking about the future ragequits and namecalling*
18 Jul 2015, 07:37 AM
#5
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

It would be cool if Relic gave the UKF a T0 infantry transport like the M3A1. Maybe this could help vs the Sniper?
18 Jul 2015, 07:41 AM
#6
avatar of Emporer Palpatine

Posts: 54

Permanently Banned
What I would like to see is the two man sniper squad be altered into a unit with one sniper, and one recon model. The recon model gives a bigger sight radius with which to scout, but the model can't shoot. If one model dies, let it be the sniper, then you have the recon model left. If the recon guy dies, you have a sniper left.

Would be cool, but just my thoughts on it.
18 Jul 2015, 07:45 AM
#7
avatar of Emporer Palpatine

Posts: 54

Permanently Banned
It would be cool if Relic gave the UKF a T0 infantry transport like the M3A1. Maybe this could help vs the Sniper?


Something stat wise like vcoh bren carrier but less potent? I remember the early struggles vs the stupid bren carrier xd
18 Jul 2015, 07:47 AM
#8
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Thanks for the post but I would have to say I'm against this. Reasoning being, people chose to go for larger squads like Panzer Fusiliers or Osttruppen is order to counter sniper play. If your changes were implemented then there would be no point to choosing different squads.

Think CoH1 Brits vs Wehr Sniper. I believe that explains it sufficiently without breaking the NDA...


It would be cool if Relic gave the UKF a T0 infantry transport like the M3A1. Maybe this could help vs the Sniper?

Actually they have the Bren Carrier, as shown in the UKF Announcement Trailer.
18 Jul 2015, 08:28 AM
#9
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779


Think CoH1 Brits vs Wehr Sniper. I believe that explains it sufficiently without breaking the NDA...



Actually they have the Bren Carrier, as shown in the UKF Announcement Trailer.


It is not a clown car.
18 Jul 2015, 08:44 AM
#10
avatar of OuTLaWSTaR
Donator 11

Posts: 453

Can allied players please stop complaining about Oshteer? Jesus christ, you already have soviet snipers that double axis, 2 more scripts per t0 fw infantry unit (scale the same), rifles that outnumber and outscale, able to out tech light armour early-mid game. I mean why don't we just widdle down Wehrmacht to 1 or 2 units and eliminate snipers that way allied players don't have to find something new to whine about.
18 Jul 2015, 08:51 AM
#11
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

Can allied players please stop complaining about Oshteer? Jesus christ, you already have soviet snipers that double axis, 2 more scripts per t0 fw infantry unit (scale the same), rifles that outnumber and outscale, able to out tech light armour early-mid game. I mean why don't we just widdle down Wehrmacht to 1 or 2 units and eliminate snipers that way allied players don't have to find something new to whine about.


But Ostheer snipers are (will be) truly OP in some matchup, I don't know how should they fix though.

WTF double quote
18 Jul 2015, 09:02 AM
#13
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Can allied players please stop complaining about Oshteer?


Hi, I'm not an allied player, and this change is about all Snipers and how they function.
18 Jul 2015, 09:10 AM
#14
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


As for the German sniper, he needs to have a fast firing rate as allied infantry is generally cheaper to reinforce that that of axis infantry. Furthermore since he is a one man unit there is more risk involved compared with the use of a Soviet sniper.


Soon you won't have that argument as it'll be completely invalid.
18 Jul 2015, 09:19 AM
#15
avatar of l4hti

Posts: 476

Ostheer sniper is broken against Brits. Why? NDA :snfPeter: But i think you can figure it out yourself.
18 Jul 2015, 09:26 AM
#16
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

I suggested this change already quite some times and think it's the best solution.
It's only about the Ostheer sniper since the rof of the Soviet sniper is ok.
The current performance of the Ost sniper against 6 & 5 men squads should be unchanged, so you can still do pushes with 6 men squads to counter him.

The rof against 4 men squads is too high on the other hand and should be changed to the rof of the Soviet sniper.
18 Jul 2015, 10:03 AM
#17
avatar of OuTLaWSTaR
Donator 11

Posts: 453

You guys are missing the point, a sniper from a distant position SHOULD BE ABLE TO KILL A 4 MAN SQUAD. lol
18 Jul 2015, 10:09 AM
#18
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

You guys are missing the point, a sniper from a distant position SHOULD BE ABLE TO KILL A 4 MAN SQUAD. lol

You're not really interested in balance for all armies, are you?
18 Jul 2015, 10:23 AM
#19
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

You guys are missing the point, a sniper from a distant position SHOULD BE ABLE TO KILL A 4 MAN SQUAD. lol


Then buff the soviet sniper so he fires as fast as the Ostheer one -_-
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