I recently preordered the game and jumped into some automatch. I loved the 88 from CoH 1 and decided to try out the new 88 against an opponent going armor spam.
It would appear you have to manually rotate it like a regular PAK? The big plus of the CoH 1 88 was it automatically rotated to engage flanking units. Basically, it's a fixed PAK with longer range. No thanks.
Why bother with the Festung Armor Doctrine when the core of the doctrine, the 88, sucks? Am I missing something?
Thanks.
The New 88 Kinda Sucks
10 Jun 2013, 02:39 AM
#1
Posts: 60
10 Jun 2013, 02:42 AM
#2
Posts: 144
but, really long range, and powerful!
10 Jun 2013, 10:57 AM
#3
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
pak43 was more powerfull than flak 88
10 Jun 2013, 13:07 PM
#4
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedDoes it have any kind of Barrage?
10 Jun 2013, 15:47 PM
#5
Posts: 7
The "new 88" is doing way more damage than a regular pak + the Command Tank in this doctrine and the smokes for tanks are pretty neat if you can make good use of them.
17 Jun 2013, 23:23 PM
#6
1 Posts: 532 | Subs: 1
It does not suck.
It costs only 480 MP, instantly destroys the engine on rear shots and takes minimal amount of hits to kill the IS-2 in comparison to just about anything else. The Elefant is the only other thing that even compares and it is many times more expensive. If anything, I would like to see the Pak-43's pop cost go down.
Don't forget Railroad Artillery, the 2nd most powerful artillery ability in the game.
It costs only 480 MP, instantly destroys the engine on rear shots and takes minimal amount of hits to kill the IS-2 in comparison to just about anything else. The Elefant is the only other thing that even compares and it is many times more expensive. If anything, I would like to see the Pak-43's pop cost go down.
Don't forget Railroad Artillery, the 2nd most powerful artillery ability in the game.
17 Jun 2013, 23:37 PM
#7
Posts: 144
I think, It is too easy to break. 
18 Jun 2013, 00:00 AM
#8
1 Posts: 532 | Subs: 1
I think, It is too easy to break.
That's why you support it. It's a long-range AT Heavy Gun, and requires the due protection from infantry and possibly a tank.
18 Jun 2013, 00:08 AM
#9
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedIts immobile with no indirect fire capacity, isnt it? Never fielded it yet.
18 Jun 2013, 00:10 AM
#10
1 Posts: 532 | Subs: 1
Its immobile with no indirect fire capacity, isnt it? Never fielded it yet.
Precisely. It can turn, though, and does some devastating damage. It's better vs IS-2s than an Elefant, so that leaves you with free fuel to spend on other tanks.
To give you an idea on the range, it can shoot from the Northern Bridge (Pripyat) to the Central VP.
18 Jun 2013, 00:10 AM
#11
Posts: 144
That's why you support it. It's a long-range AT Heavy Gun, and requires the due protection from infantry and possibly a tank.
Ah.. I mean artillery attack. 120mm mortar, howitzer, and IL2 bombing.
Of course, That does not mean it isn't worth.
just... DO NOT ARTY TO MY PAK43!! SHIT!!
18 Jun 2013, 00:17 AM
#12
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedYes, saving fuel is good. But the paradox there is once i drop 480MP on it, im not foing to have MP for a tank anyways. Perhaps can have a marfinal last ditch use if Im fuel starved.
18 Jun 2013, 01:56 AM
#13
Posts: 60
It does not suck.
It costs only 480 MP, instantly destroys the engine on rear shots and takes minimal amount of hits to kill the IS-2 in comparison to just about anything else. The Elefant is the only other thing that even compares and it is many times more expensive. If anything, I would like to see the Pak-43's pop cost go down.
From what I saw, the firing arc is no better than a regular PAK. Zerg rushing the 88 is a viable option.
My point is that the core of the doctrine is mediocre and creates an incentive to pick another option
18 Jun 2013, 02:07 AM
#14
Posts: 194
I don't think it's the Pak43 itself - it's mostly the maps. Unless you're playing 3v3+, none of the maps have enough open areas to make its massive reach worthwhile since there will always be buildings, hedges, etc in the way. Nobody really built 88s on CoH1 maps like Ruins or Lorraine for the same reason. Maybe one exception to this is Pripyat if you can just focus it on the center VP area, but meh. That map is kind of lame.
Coupled with true sight and lack of auto rotation, it does need to be babysat quite a bit. That all being said, when it works it feels more powerful than the 88. /shrug. I've not yet really made a decision whether I like it or not. Giving it a decent muni cost indirect fire mode might be interesting, though might be a bit much.
Coupled with true sight and lack of auto rotation, it does need to be babysat quite a bit. That all being said, when it works it feels more powerful than the 88. /shrug. I've not yet really made a decision whether I like it or not. Giving it a decent muni cost indirect fire mode might be interesting, though might be a bit much.
18 Jun 2013, 02:31 AM
#15
Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2
It performs kinda like a 17lb using the AP ability, absolutely rapes tanks. But I think it could use a durability increase.
18 Jun 2013, 08:29 AM
#16
Posts: 2425
Permanently BannedStill struggling to get a match vs an opponent that lasts lon enough for me to try fielding one.
Shazzs point about maps is poignant, since it requires direct, unobstructed lines of fire as well as spotting. I havent yet looked at the maps with the specific intent to designate good PaK43 sites, but my gut tells me there are not many and it becomes an obvious target for Sov artillery, limiting its shelf-life notably, as since it will not move, opponent knows exactly where to drop artillery and exactly what firelines it covers, once he knows where it is.
I rarely argue historical accuracy, but im against an indirect fire muni option on it, simply because historically, it couldnt lob shells like a howitzer.
Instead, I suggest a "Penetrating Shot" muni ability, which would allow it to fire THROUGH obstacles in a more limited range, to hit armor that is spotted hiding behind a building or hedgerow for example.
Shazzs point about maps is poignant, since it requires direct, unobstructed lines of fire as well as spotting. I havent yet looked at the maps with the specific intent to designate good PaK43 sites, but my gut tells me there are not many and it becomes an obvious target for Sov artillery, limiting its shelf-life notably, as since it will not move, opponent knows exactly where to drop artillery and exactly what firelines it covers, once he knows where it is.
I rarely argue historical accuracy, but im against an indirect fire muni option on it, simply because historically, it couldnt lob shells like a howitzer.
Instead, I suggest a "Penetrating Shot" muni ability, which would allow it to fire THROUGH obstacles in a more limited range, to hit armor that is spotted hiding behind a building or hedgerow for example.
18 Jun 2013, 09:42 AM
#17
Posts: 476
Biggest Problem: It gets instantly destroyed. Not only decrewed, not only to less then half hp... no. Alomost everthing explosive outright kills it, leaving you without the option to recrew or repair it.
A soltion would be, that it doesn't die so fast, but needs to be over half health to shoot or something.
A soltion would be, that it doesn't die so fast, but needs to be over half health to shoot or something.
I play mostly 1v1 and my post are with 1v1 in mind.
18 Jun 2013, 10:20 AM
#18
Posts: 176
Played a game this morning, parked my IS-2 just at the border line range of a Vet 3 Pak 43.
Needless to say my partner in crime Basilone pointed out my new scrap metal pile that had appeared.
For their cost they seem more than affective at dealing with armour / at guns whilst costing no fuel themselves. However we did easily flank and destroy one due to the slow turn speed.
Needless to say my partner in crime Basilone pointed out my new scrap metal pile that had appeared.
For their cost they seem more than affective at dealing with armour / at guns whilst costing no fuel themselves. However we did easily flank and destroy one due to the slow turn speed.
19 Jun 2013, 19:49 PM
#19
Posts: 50
Compared to the old 88 - this unit is pretty boring - however devastating it may be. Being able to AUTO rotate is something that would set it aprt from other units. And everything in this game is too similar at this point.
Babysitting units like that isn't fun imo. Just like babysitting infatry to vault isn't either. Bring a little more AUTO - so we can focus on the bigger picture.
Babysitting units like that isn't fun imo. Just like babysitting infatry to vault isn't either. Bring a little more AUTO - so we can focus on the bigger picture.
Only Relic post
20 Jun 2013, 00:05 AM
#20
Posts: 75 | Subs: 11
If you spot for it, it should shoot THROUGH any intervening building or object. It uses the same piercing ability as the ISU, but it's on all the time. Should shoot through buildings and neutral objects.
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