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17 Jul 2015, 14:26 PM
#101
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 13:20 PMkamk

Zis, Su76?
You can get both wayyyy before OKW P4 hits the field.


Yes but the okw can rely on the puma to deal with any early t-70's . as for the su76 the stug flat out curb stomps it unless it can use its longer range to its advantage.


It's not really a risk. Soviet T3 offers everything you need:

M5 for AI, T-70 for AI (and against other light vehicles) and SU-76 for AT and light artillery support.


Its a well balanced package no doubt but ost tier 3 is still stronger. get an ostwind out to deal with the m5/t70 first and once he follows with a su76 nail him with the stugs. also if you are really desperate 2 222 can also effective fight t70's


Panther is faster than any medium tank, while also having blitz. Will consider this a brainfart.


the blitz on both the panther and tiger got nerfed into the ground providing only a small speed increase.


A panther is first of all not a true hevy. It is substantially cheaper, whilst retaining the advantages of speed and high armor. A better comparison would be a panther to 3-4 t34s. A panther works in tandem with support units. It tanks damage, whilst supporting units dish out damage. The stugs on the other hand, require meatshields. They are dps, not true armor.


2 problems with this logic. your not going to have enough resources getting both panthers and supportive units unless you mean paks or shreks. which are rather frail and unsuitable for offensive actions. high dps can be just as great a defensive tools. high damage means death stuff , death stuff means no need for defence. if you need a breakthrough unit you will not find it in tier 4 but in the tiger or the new and improved lefh.
17 Jul 2015, 14:39 PM
#102
avatar of kamk
Donator 11

Posts: 764

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 14:26 PMZyllen


Yes but the okw can rely on the puma to deal with any early t-70's . as for the su76 the stug flat out curb stomps it unless it can use its longer range to its advantage.
...

I didn't know OKW has a Stug now. And if you get a Puma in between you won't be able to "rush" a P4 out. Nevertheless, a Zis / Su76 can deal with both.

It's a matter of combined arms for all factions now, which is certainly good.
17 Jul 2015, 14:49 PM
#103
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 14:26 PMZyllen

the blitz on both the panther and tiger got nerfed into the ground providing only a small speed increase.


It still provides a speed increase. A panther with its fast stock speed, amazing armor, and above average hp is undeniably more survivable than any p4. Especially if both are at vet 2.



2 problems with this logic. your not going to have enough resources getting both panthers and supportive units unless you mean paks or shreks. which are rather frail and unsuitable for offensive actions. high dps can be just as great a defensive tools. high damage means death stuff , death stuff means no need for defence. if you need a breakthrough unit you will not find it in tier 4 but in the tiger or the new and improved lefh.


Paks and shrecks absolutely are supporting units. They may be fragile, but that is why the panther exists. It tanks damage and blocks enemy flanks so that your paks can do their job unmolested. The panther is an enabler for them. For offensive actions, t4 is the best you can get. High armor, + high explosive barrage + the prefer is theoretically the best selection of units yo assault a position. Whether the units themselves are up to snuff is another problem.

The tiger is good, but its slow and much more expensive than a panther. The lefh has a role, but it can't tank damage for the rest of your units.

Its totally up to you whether or not you think panthers and brumbars are good. However, you are in the minority in this community if you think that the panther has no useful role.
17 Jul 2015, 15:19 PM
#104
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 14:39 PMkamk

I didn't know OKW has a Stug now. And if you get a Puma in between you won't be able to "rush" a P4 out. Nevertheless, a Zis / Su76 can deal with both.

It's a matter of combined arms for all factions now, which is certainly good.


Well thank you for the information captain obvious. i humoured you with an an answer because so far i was not talking about the okw at all and you suddenly brought the okw up for no reason. Now get lost mate .
17 Jul 2015, 15:25 PM
#105
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176

The thing is that Wehrmacht T4 isn't really a necessity.

If you think about it, OH T4 is somewhat a step above Allied top tiers. SU T4 is about medium armor (a generalist and a TD) and artillery. USF T3? Medium armor (one generalist, one TD) and artillery (which is actually just a Sherman HE shooter with more range and less durability).

Meanwhile, OH T4 includes a heavily armored tank hunter which can face pretty much anything with armor in the game meaningfully, a gigantic assault gun that destroys anything without armor, and a shitty artillery piece that, at one time, did a decent job softening enemy positions. In their T3, however, you find medium armor: one generalist, one TD, and a manraping flak tank.

If OH just stops at T3, while their enemies advance in tech, then the only thing their enemies will have which they won't is artillery, but the Allies aren't really that good at defending anyways, so their stock mortar can probably do the job.

Meanwhile, OH T4 contains unit which the Allied stock army simply doesn't. Allies don't have a well-armored stock tank hunter or a well-armored stock assault gun.

So why is it that everyone whines about OH T4 being out of reach? The Allies don't even have an equivalent tier, so be glad at least you have the chance to tech up and unlock units which are just plain better. If you think about it, it kind of does feel like OH gets an extra tier, when they have Panthers and Brummbars while the Allied stock is strangely devoid of things like the KV-1S or the Sherman Jumbo.

OH T4 is a luxury tier, an extra level above your opponents you can ascend to if you have the means, but in no way a neccessity. You can play effectively without it; I do it all the time. Clearly everyone else does too, considering how they constantly insist that T4 isn't worth it.

So don't complain about how your super-special luxury edition mega tier that your enemies don't even have is hard to get. If OH T4 had units which were absolute necessities, then I could see the argument. But as it is, the Allies seem to be stuck in the past while OH gets to pull out every cool late-war toy. The OH tech tree just plain goes further forwards, and that's why it's also the priciest.
17 Jul 2015, 15:28 PM
#106
avatar of Zyllen

Posts: 770



It still provides a speed increase. A panther with its fast stock speed, amazing armor, and above average hp is undeniably more survivable than any p4. Especially if both are at vet 2.

The tiger is good, but its slow and much more expensive than a panther. The lefh has a role, but it can't tank damage for the rest of your units.

Its totally up to you whether or not you think panthers and brumbars are good. However, you are in the minority in this community if you think that the panther has no useful role.


The question is not if the panther has use. it still has use the question is if im willing to spend a lot of fuel and mp getting one while their are better alternatives. Then answer of course is no. unless tier 4 cost gets drastically reduced i see no use getting tier 4 when better options are available.
17 Jul 2015, 16:50 PM
#107
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559

Invisied post #28 for defamation of member.
17 Jul 2015, 19:15 PM
#108
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 15:28 PMZyllen


The question is not if the panther has use. it still has use the question is if im willing to spend a lot of fuel and mp getting one while their are better alternatives. Then answer of course is no. unless tier 4 cost gets drastically reduced i see no use getting tier 4 when better options are available.


On 1v1, i'm sure most of the time you are better going T3 (as usual). The point is, on 2v2 and further, it won't be mandatory to go T3 when paired with OKW and it makes the jump to T4 a bit faster.
There are maps and scenarios were you'll need the crapwerfer or the Brummbar. There are times on which you'll need a PV instead of a Stug.
17 Jul 2015, 19:32 PM
#109
avatar of VonIvan

Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21

I am hoping teching to T4 Pr0stheer is easier in 1v1 to achieve than previously doing so and less of a consequence than before. :foreveralone:
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