New Incoming Teching Costs.

Jump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 13:20 PMkamk

Zis, Su76?
You can get both wayyyy before OKW P4 hits the field.

It's not really a risk. Soviet T3 offers everything you need:

M5 for AI, T-70 for AI (and against other light vehicles) and SU-76 for AT and light artillery support.

Panther is faster than any medium tank, while also having blitz. Will consider this a brainfart.

A panther is first of all not a true hevy. It is substantially cheaper, whilst retaining the advantages of speed and high armor. A better comparison would be a panther to 3-4 t34s. A panther works in tandem with support units. It tanks damage, whilst supporting units dish out damage. The stugs on the other hand, require meatshields. They are dps, not true armor.

Jump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 14:26 PMZyllen

Yes but the okw can rely on the puma to deal with any early t-70's . as for the su76 the stug flat out curb stomps it unless it can use its longer range to its advantage.
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Jump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 14:26 PMZyllen

the blitz on both the panther and tiger got nerfed into the ground providing only a small speed increase.

2 problems with this logic. your not going to have enough resources getting both panthers and supportive units unless you mean paks or shreks. which are rather frail and unsuitable for offensive actions. high dps can be just as great a defensive tools. high damage means death stuff , death stuff means no need for defence. if you need a breakthrough unit you will not find it in tier 4 but in the tiger or the new and improved lefh.

Jump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 14:39 PMkamk

I didn't know OKW has a Stug now. And if you get a Puma in between you won't be able to "rush" a P4 out. Nevertheless, a Zis / Su76 can deal with both.

It's a matter of combined arms for all factions now, which is certainly good.

Jump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 02:34 AMGoldeneale

The thing is that Wehrmacht T4 isn't really a necessity.

If you think about it, OH T4 is somewhat a step above Allied top tiers. SU T4 is about medium armor (a generalist and a TD) and artillery. USF T3? Medium armor (one generalist, one TD) and artillery (which is actually just a Sherman HE shooter with more range and less durability).

Meanwhile, OH T4 includes a heavily armored tank hunter which can face pretty much anything with armor in the game meaningfully, a gigantic assault gun that destroys anything without armor, and a shitty artillery piece that, at one time, did a decent job softening enemy positions. In their T3, however, you find medium armor: one generalist, one TD, and a manraping flak tank.

If OH just stops at T3, while their enemies advance in tech, then the only thing their enemies will have which they won't is artillery, but the Allies aren't really that good at defending anyways, so their stock mortar can probably do the job.

Meanwhile, OH T4 contains unit which the Allied stock army simply doesn't. Allies don't have a well-armored stock tank hunter or a well-armored stock assault gun.

So why is it that everyone whines about OH T4 being out of reach? The Allies don't even have an equivalent tier, so be glad at least you have the chance to tech up and unlock units which are just plain better. If you think about it, it kind of does feel like OH gets an extra tier, when they have Panthers and Brummbars while the Allied stock is strangely devoid of things like the KV-1S or the Sherman Jumbo.

OH T4 is a luxury tier, an extra level above your opponents you can ascend to if you have the means, but in no way a neccessity. You can play effectively without it; I do it all the time. Clearly everyone else does too, considering how they constantly insist that T4 isn't worth it.

So don't complain about how your super-special luxury edition mega tier that your enemies don't even have is hard to get. If OH T4 had units which were absolute necessities, then I could see the argument. But as it is, the Allies seem to be stuck in the past while OH gets to pull out every cool late-war toy. The OH tech tree just plain goes further forwards, and that's why it's also the priciest.

Jump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 14:49 PMcomm_ash

It still provides a speed increase. A panther with its fast stock speed, amazing armor, and above average hp is undeniably more survivable than any p4. Especially if both are at vet 2.

The tiger is good, but its slow and much more expensive than a panther. The lefh has a role, but it can't tank damage for the rest of your units.

Its totally up to you whether or not you think panthers and brumbars are good. However, you are in the minority in this community if you think that the panther has no useful role.

Jump back to quoted post17 Jul 2015, 15:28 PMZyllen

The question is not if the panther has use. it still has use the question is if im willing to spend a lot of fuel and mp getting one while their are better alternatives. Then answer of course is no. unless tier 4 cost gets drastically reduced i see no use getting tier 4 when better options are available.