Is the BAR essential?

Apologise if this is the wrong forum but I would like to know just how much better a squad is with 1 - 2 BAR's.

I played a game a few days ago where a rifle squad with (I think) 2 BAR's went toe to toe with panzergrens and send them running with hardly any health loss, was this luck or the advantage of using a 2 BAR squad?

Without bars past minute 10 riflemen are useless expensive fodder, They are Penals with no flamer.

With bars, especially double bars, they can stomp just about any infantry unit. Obviously in a blob it's even more devastating, but I didn't tell you that

Skipping or forgetting bars /M1919 is just gimping your advantages.

Not really, the current meta is to spam as much shermans as possible because even with BARs riflemen quickly become a nonfactor againts LMG grens, especially because CAS gives the ostheer player so much munis.

Againts OKW it's a different story, they generlaly lack good anti infantry options, but theres really no reason to pick BARs over m1919s or flamer rifles, considering that BARs are worse than both.


With the new patch where USF teching is delayed by quite a bit we might see a bit more BARs and maybe zooks, but i doubt it.


Generally, if you go airborne, rifle company or infantry company do not research BARs.

If you go armor company, do research BARs. If you have a massive amount of munis, going BARs to equip your rifles if you are airborne company might be a good deal. Pathfinders with BARs are quite good, too.




Other two doctrines are complete trash so i dont consider them

So 2 BARS is only advantageous over 1? You don't lose, only gain from having 2x BARS on a squad?

Is there any stats floating around that show the numbers? Gotta love them here numbers.

So 2 BARS is only advantageous over 1? You don't lose, only gain from having 2x BARS on a squad?

Is there any stats floating around that show the numbers? Gotta love them here numbers.

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms


Keep in mind that you should always equip rear echelons with BARs first.


Rear echelons have carbines that do less damage than rifleman M1 garands, so when you equip a rifleman with a BAR, the squad loses 1 M1 garand, but when you equip a rear echelon with a BAR, the squad loses an M1 carbine, which means that the overall DPS of your entire army is higher.


Honestly, riflemen don't really serve a purpose after the 10 minutes, unless you go flamer or m1919 machine guns. Rear echelons or airborne scale way better.


This is especially true considering that rear echelons got a nice 15% accuracy buff last patch.


Which makes their M1 carbines do about as much damage as a conscript mosin nagant at mid range, more at close range, and less at long range.


Considering that rear echelon reinforce cost is 20mp, the same as conscripts, rear echelons are 4 man conscript squads who can equip weapons. They have slightly worse veterancy stats, however.

So 2 BARS is only advantageous over 1? You don't lose, only gain from having 2x BARS on a squad?

Is there any stats floating around that show the numbers? Gotta love them here numbers.

Well here´s some gun stats that USF has from their upgrades

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/riflemen_bar_30_06_light_machine_gun_mp BAR

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/riflemen_30cal_lmg_mp 30cal

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/m1_garand_rifle_rifleman_mp M1 Garand

http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/m9_bazooka_mp Bazooka

Taken from: http://www.coh2-stats.com/

/Snip

That's something I would be far too afraid to do, the survivability of a RE squad even in green cover seems to be around the life expectancy of a Mayfly, so pumping them with resources just feels...Wrong, I will have to try it in cheat mode though.

Riflemen with dual BARs are Fire Warriors.

I won't say that bars aren't useful, far from it. They are some of the best upgrades base infantry can get in the game.

However, I personally fond that grenades are good enough for me lategame. I invest just about all of my mp in tanks in the lategame (I'm talking 4 sherman + jackson). Its a huge micro bleed, but it allows you to wipe squads with impunity while swarming anything that appears.

My rifles meanwhile exist purely to flank enemy positions and nade them to death during battles, or to harass territory. I just find even 2x bar rifles inefficient due to their high cost per model coupled with their close/ midrange power.

1919s and flamers of course are a different matter. Spam the shit out of those

That's something I would be far too afraid to do, the survivability of a RE squad even in green cover seems to be around the life expectancy of a Mayfly, so pumping them with resources just feels...Wrong, I will have to try it in cheat mode though.

This. I wouldn't recommend BARs on REs, the reasoning on them getting a better return on BARs is sound in theory but in practice I don't think they are durable enough. They have REAR in their name for a reason.

I've watched some casts where a USF player went early BARs and utilized the early firepower advantage to good effect but that was the older patch and with the new MG42 you'll likely need Grenades first for smoke. Something to keep in mind.

Personally, I like to usually try to get them inbetween Lt. or Capt. + Ambu and Major to help Riflemen scale against LMG Grens and other Elite Infantry.

BAR RE's are good against CAS because riflemen are simply flimsy jello against all the LMG lazor beam,pin planes,and whatnot,even with double bars,except they cost 280 MP with dat reinforce cost,so you might as well just use the unit thats cheaper in RE's,and give them priority bars instead. They'll all get pinned and strafed to death,regardless of their cost,is what Cheese is getting at,I think.


But if youre not going against CAS I have no idea what he's talking about


but then again when are you not going against CAS

Yes, Rifles relies on weapon upgrades to still be useful at the latter stages of the game. BARs are excellent at giving Rifles a damage boost and cementing them as a dominating squad at mid and close range combat. Even Sturmpios, Panzergrenadiers, & Falls will struggle against them at these ranges. OKW is quite vulnerable to BAR Rifles, even Obers can find it difficult if you use your squads wisely. Wehrmacht can be countered with liberal use of smoke, good LOS usage, and cover management to negate LMGs and close the distance.

One very important thing to remember about BARs compared to flamers or M1919s is that BARs can fire on the move and quite good at that too. They're always doing damage. Meaning that if they get around a flank and close the distance, few squads will be able to wither their assault. Even retreating, Rifles are great at wiping squads thanks to this high damage and being able to chase them down. Weapon teams are particularly vulnerable to this.

Even with Airborne, Rifle, & Infantry Company BARs have a place in those. Paratroopers are called in at 3 CP and at a expensive price but once you have Paratroopers equipped with M1919s, you can suppress or slow down enemy units allowing BAR Rifles close in. Rifle flamers force you stop and fire so I suggest only getting a flamer or two if you need it against buildings but BARs are more versatile and flexible, being useful at all ranges. Finally M1919s can't be fire on the move, again resulting in a cost of mobility. However with Defensive Stance they can suppress or pin thus allowing BAR Rifles a safer and greater chance to close in.
Always be mindful of mobility and combining abilities with weapons as USF. They rely on it greatly to be effective during the battle.

One last note on RE BARs is that yes they can be effective with them but are horribly vulnerable to vehicles and such. Not to mention they lack grenades, unable to smoke HMGs and to safety close in is a difficult obstacle. Without grenades of the explosive kind, clearing out buildings or grenade weapon teams is quite the hindrance as well. If you found Rifles dying against Grenadiers with MG42s than prepare for the droves of RE that will be cut down.

Good luck with your USF and my you find glory on the battlefield! *Tally Ho Cookie!*

Bars are veryyyyy good on Pathfinders, on 2 pathfinders they can destroy an mg42 in seconds. They are also very potent vs ostheer sniper.

BARS aren't essential imo, but they do help if you equip them late game vs vetted axis inf.

BAR and later in the game add flamer

REs with BARs>Riflemen with BARs

Somewhat on topic, are No-Riflemen builds viable? I've done a couple of games where I go 6 RE, 3 Path, Captain, Bars, AT gun, Major and it's been working reasonably well for a crackpot strategy. Once REs hit vet 2 with BARs they become the most cost efficient infantry ingame, like Cons that actually scale.

you do need some type of upgrades for the rifleman. Even the garand equipped rifleman are going to have trouble against the lmg42.

if you don't like the bar you can try buying the flamer or the m1919a6.

What about BAR's on AE squads? I tried this in the patch mod and wasn't sure if it made them worse close up or not, it felt like it did but that may have been placebo.

I mean, flamer, grease gun and a BAR must be a good DPS, right? Or would you argue the survivability of them is not good enough to warrant this?

Sort of off topic but speaking of AE squads, more specifically the Armour Company CMDR, would you recommend swapping out your tank crews for some RE squads so you can use the Thompson and actually get some use out of the otherwise useless 'perk'?

AE squads with BAR and Flamer wipe up most troops up close.

Idk about Thompsons.

.

Its the reinforce cost of the vehicle crews that kind of gimps doing that. Plus the actual muni cost of the thompsons