Is the BAR essential?
Posts: 773
I played a game a few days ago where a rifle squad with (I think) 2 BAR's went toe to toe with panzergrens and send them running with hardly any health loss, was this luck or the advantage of using a 2 BAR squad?
Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
With bars, especially double bars, they can stomp just about any infantry unit. Obviously in a blob it's even more devastating, but I didn't tell you that
Skipping or forgetting bars /M1919 is just gimping your advantages.
Posts: 1702
Againts OKW it's a different story, they generlaly lack good anti infantry options, but theres really no reason to pick BARs over m1919s or flamer rifles, considering that BARs are worse than both.
With the new patch where USF teching is delayed by quite a bit we might see a bit more BARs and maybe zooks, but i doubt it.
Generally, if you go airborne, rifle company or infantry company do not research BARs.
If you go armor company, do research BARs. If you have a massive amount of munis, going BARs to equip your rifles if you are airborne company might be a good deal. Pathfinders with BARs are quite good, too.
Other two doctrines are complete trash so i dont consider them
Posts: 773
Is there any stats floating around that show the numbers? Gotta love them here numbers.
Posts: 1702
So 2 BARS is only advantageous over 1? You don't lose, only gain from having 2x BARS on a squad?
Is there any stats floating around that show the numbers? Gotta love them here numbers.
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms
Keep in mind that you should always equip rear echelons with BARs first.
Rear echelons have carbines that do less damage than rifleman M1 garands, so when you equip a rifleman with a BAR, the squad loses 1 M1 garand, but when you equip a rear echelon with a BAR, the squad loses an M1 carbine, which means that the overall DPS of your entire army is higher.
Honestly, riflemen don't really serve a purpose after the 10 minutes, unless you go flamer or m1919 machine guns. Rear echelons or airborne scale way better.
This is especially true considering that rear echelons got a nice 15% accuracy buff last patch.
Which makes their M1 carbines do about as much damage as a conscript mosin nagant at mid range, more at close range, and less at long range.
Considering that rear echelon reinforce cost is 20mp, the same as conscripts, rear echelons are 4 man conscript squads who can equip weapons. They have slightly worse veterancy stats, however.
Posts: 587
So 2 BARS is only advantageous over 1? You don't lose, only gain from having 2x BARS on a squad?
Is there any stats floating around that show the numbers? Gotta love them here numbers.
Well here´s some gun stats that USF has from their upgrades
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/riflemen_bar_30_06_light_machine_gun_mp BAR
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/riflemen_30cal_lmg_mp 30cal
http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/m1_garand_rifle_rifleman_mp M1 Garand
http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/m9_bazooka_mp Bazooka
Taken from: http://www.coh2-stats.com/
Posts: 773
/Snip
That's something I would be far too afraid to do, the survivability of a RE squad even in green cover seems to be around the life expectancy of a Mayfly, so pumping them with resources just feels...Wrong, I will have to try it in cheat mode though.
Posts: 1891
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
However, I personally fond that grenades are good enough for me lategame. I invest just about all of my mp in tanks in the lategame (I'm talking 4 sherman + jackson). Its a huge micro bleed, but it allows you to wipe squads with impunity while swarming anything that appears.
My rifles meanwhile exist purely to flank enemy positions and nade them to death during battles, or to harass territory. I just find even 2x bar rifles inefficient due to their high cost per model coupled with their close/ midrange power.
1919s and flamers of course are a different matter. Spam the shit out of those
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
That's something I would be far too afraid to do, the survivability of a RE squad even in green cover seems to be around the life expectancy of a Mayfly, so pumping them with resources just feels...Wrong, I will have to try it in cheat mode though.
This. I wouldn't recommend BARs on REs, the reasoning on them getting a better return on BARs is sound in theory but in practice I don't think they are durable enough. They have REAR in their name for a reason.
I've watched some casts where a USF player went early BARs and utilized the early firepower advantage to good effect but that was the older patch and with the new MG42 you'll likely need Grenades first for smoke. Something to keep in mind.
Personally, I like to usually try to get them inbetween Lt. or Capt. + Ambu and Major to help Riflemen scale against LMG Grens and other Elite Infantry.
Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
But if youre not going against CAS I have no idea what he's talking about
but then again when are you not going against CAS
Posts: 424 | Subs: 2
One very important thing to remember about BARs compared to flamers or M1919s is that BARs can fire on the move and quite good at that too. They're always doing damage. Meaning that if they get around a flank and close the distance, few squads will be able to wither their assault. Even retreating, Rifles are great at wiping squads thanks to this high damage and being able to chase them down. Weapon teams are particularly vulnerable to this.
Even with Airborne, Rifle, & Infantry Company BARs have a place in those. Paratroopers are called in at 3 CP and at a expensive price but once you have Paratroopers equipped with M1919s, you can suppress or slow down enemy units allowing BAR Rifles close in. Rifle flamers force you stop and fire so I suggest only getting a flamer or two if you need it against buildings but BARs are more versatile and flexible, being useful at all ranges. Finally M1919s can't be fire on the move, again resulting in a cost of mobility. However with Defensive Stance they can suppress or pin thus allowing BAR Rifles a safer and greater chance to close in.
Always be mindful of mobility and combining abilities with weapons as USF. They rely on it greatly to be effective during the battle.
One last note on RE BARs is that yes they can be effective with them but are horribly vulnerable to vehicles and such. Not to mention they lack grenades, unable to smoke HMGs and to safety close in is a difficult obstacle. Without grenades of the explosive kind, clearing out buildings or grenade weapon teams is quite the hindrance as well. If you found Rifles dying against Grenadiers with MG42s than prepare for the droves of RE that will be cut down.
Good luck with your USF and my you find glory on the battlefield! *Tally Ho Cookie!*
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Posts: 732
Posts: 1891
Somewhat on topic, are No-Riflemen builds viable? I've done a couple of games where I go 6 RE, 3 Path, Captain, Bars, AT gun, Major and it's been working reasonably well for a crackpot strategy. Once REs hit vet 2 with BARs they become the most cost efficient infantry ingame, like Cons that actually scale.
Posts: 1930
if you don't like the bar you can try buying the flamer or the m1919a6.
Posts: 773
I mean, flamer, grease gun and a BAR must be a good DPS, right? Or would you argue the survivability of them is not good enough to warrant this?
Sort of off topic but speaking of AE squads, more specifically the Armour Company CMDR, would you recommend swapping out your tank crews for some RE squads so you can use the Thompson and actually get some use out of the otherwise useless 'perk'?
Posts: 1891
Idk about Thompsons.
Posts: 205
.
Its the reinforce cost of the vehicle crews that kind of gimps doing that. Plus the actual muni cost of the thompsons
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