About the next patch. T70s are coming!

Would be great. 221 no one uses for anything but to upgrade to 222.

Funny thing is that i can still use current 222 to kill M15 because that actually has a weakness, but 222 has no chance of killing a m5 quadmount as it shoots a million bullets on the move 360 degrees at 222 thin armor.

I dont mind m5 quadmount much, but... itll be nice if 222 was adjusted to have a possibility to counter the thing.

Thats because it just severely underperforms because its a 15 fuel vehicle because of the shitty 221. You are right 221 is worthless. People buy it to get the 222. Thats why increasing cost and buffing stats and making 2cm standard is the way to go.

Tellers would be effective if it weren't for the fact that you can put minesweepers in an m5 and detect them while on the run.

not really?

relic....


a little love for the 222 would be good I dont want the 222 spamerino blob back, but a a little buff never killed nobody

but a a little buff never killed nobody

Theres never such a thing as a "little" tweak

mines are not a reliable counter, especially in the early game when munition are at a premium and the teller cost 50. I'm not even sure the teller dud bug have been fixed yet.

The ost have the worst light vehicle in the entire game, and the puma is tied to one specific doctrine.

Trying to fight back against the superior allies light vehicle with just infantry and the tinfoil 222 is going to end badly for the ost. There's no way the ost can contest map control when their force is tied to their pak. They will be put completely on the defense.

The problem is that Ostheer simply has no light tank.The 222 is currently in a state where it is cheap enough to be balanced at dealing with M3s and M20s, but too cheap to be an actual threat to Stuarts and T70s.

A possible solution would be to make the 221 more expensive but give the mounted MG42 more damage and more penetration. This way the 221 would deal with M3s and be able to at least do respectable damage to the M20.

Then, the 222 upgrade could be changed (both in price and performance) to make it actually go toe-toe to with M5 quads, and be a danger to stuarts and T70s as well.

The problem is that Ostheer simply has no light tank.The 222 is currently in a state where it is cheap enough to be balanced at dealing with M3s and M20s, but too cheap to be an actual threat to Stuarts and T70s.

A possible solution would be to make the 221 more expensive but give the mounted MG42 more damage and more penetration. This way the 221 would deal with M3s and be able to at least do respectable damage to the M20.

Then, the 222 upgrade could be changed (both in price and performance) to make it actually go toe-toe to with M5 quads, and be a danger to stuarts and T70s as well.

the 222 would need a massive buff to make it a threat to the stuarts/t70. The stuart have nearly 2x the hp for starter.

normally this would be a job for puma, but it's a doctrine unit. Unless Relic make the puma a default unit....

The problem is that Ostheer simply has no light tank.The 222 is currently in a state where it is cheap enough to be balanced at dealing with M3s and M20s, but too cheap to be an actual threat to Stuarts and T70s.

A possible solution would be to make the 221 more expensive but give the mounted MG42 more damage and more penetration. This way the 221 would deal with M3s and be able to at least do respectable damage to the M20.

Then, the 222 upgrade could be changed (both in price and performance) to make it actually go toe-toe to with M5 quads, and be a danger to stuarts and T70s as well.

TBH if it was a threat to T70 or stuart we'd have a huge balance problem.
You want it to take on these? You'd need three.

You can't have generalist vehicle that costs 3 times less fuel and arrives at early game really contest mid game light armor.

Well, it wouldn't have to be a 'buff', more or a 'change', both in cost and performance. I wouldn't want such a cheap vehicle going toe-to-toe with 70 fuel vehicles.

Alternatively, and I am just spit-balling here, the 221 could be re-adjusted to have less HP and made into a T1 unit, with the 222 upgrade locked behind the BP1. T2 could then have a new unit in it: The anti-tank halftrack from CoH1 panzerelite.

TBH if it was a threat to T70 or stuart we'd have a huge balance problem.
You want it to take on these? You'd need three.

You can't have generalist vehicle that costs 3 times less fuel and arrives at early game really contest mid game light armor.

That is why I said it should be changed both in cost and performance. I don't propose a straight up buff for the 222 to be able to go up against M5sm T70s and stuarts, that would be silly for such a cheap vehicle.

OKW has reketens in t1. Use them.

As ost, pray.

I would like to see the .221 recieve an armour package included in the .222 upgrade. It's way to vonurable to small arms fire. It also shouldn't be a threat to the T70 either. People are going to have to realize there is AT guns. No more grens to t3.

I would also love to see the teller mine/mine fields be completely removed. In exchange to an OKW/SU type mine for 30 muni.

The way I see it, 222 isn't comparable to t70, stuart, M5 or luchs in any way. Ostwind is probably the closest to these as it comes in t3 and preforms the same role though heavier.

222 should be compared to the scoutcar, m20, WC51 or Kubel. They all have a very limited window to operate. Just how the ostwind is slightly heavier than light tanks, 222 is just a stronger scout car, not a light tank.

It's job is to deal with non-AT inf not light tanks. If you want to deal with those you go Ostwind, p4 or schrek with pak support and mines.

WC51 is a complete piece of shit.

i don't see any issue with the 222 being a defensive threat (in combination with a pair of fausts or a pak) to a stuart/t70.

I would like to see the .221 recieve an armour package included in the .222 upgrade. It's way to vonurable to small arms fire. It also shouldn't be a threat to the T70 either. People are going to have to realize there is AT guns. No more grens to t3.

even with ATG there's no way the ost can maintain decent map control. The axis are going to be tied down to their atg and panzerschreck. Incidentally, the same building that produce the stuart and the t70 also produce artillery.

Prediction:

Mobile defense will be the savior:
1. Fast(er) Pumas;
2. Command Panzer will be buffed and offer defense bonus everywhere it goes no matter if friendly or enemy territory.

Mobile defense ftw.

I have read the next balance patch notes and I lol...

Relic says they want to increase the viability of light vehicle combat. So the T70/M5/SU76 will come out earlier than before by 40 fuel. And they increases OSTHEER Building 3 and Building 4 fuel cost(Stug and Pz4 will be late), then decreases USF T3 building cost(quick STUAT).

So the first T70 needs only 50+80+75-50=155 fuel cost the next patch. (Don't forget 50 fuel is given to soviet at the starting of the game.)

The first STUAT needs only 60+80-40=100 fuel. (Dont't forget 40 fuel is given at the starting.)

This is the problem with reading and not playing the patch.

USF starting fuel is 15.

The cost for the stuart is 70 not 80.

Adding up to 130-15=115

Your argument completely ignores any upgrades. For USF nades are increasingly important to deal with mgs and soviets will almost always need to tech at nades. I haven't played the patch enough to say if it is possible to stall the upgrade until after the first light vehicle but I'd assume that you can if you go guards.

Against Ostheer Lieutenant seems to be the favourite choice for usf because it gives you some way of trying to deal with a sniper quickly, but again, it's too early to tell how the change to the captain cost will influence things because I haven't played enough.

Ost might struggle against light vehciles but you forget that the early game will change due to the mg42 change, the 221/222 comes out at a time where it has a good window of opportunity and light tanks will delay the tanks for allies, which might lead to an interesting dynamic of pushing back Axis when the light tanks hit and then being pushed back again when the first medium tanks hit.

I don't see the problem as much in the t70 or stuart but in the m5 ht, which is very strong with the aa upgrade since the last patch and will hit rather early and won't delay further tech or vehicles as much. Then again, the Soviets do not have a generalist tank in t3 anymore giving ost mediums more room to operate.

the 222 would need a massive buff to make it a threat to the stuarts/t70. The stuart have nearly 2x the hp for starter.

normally this would be a job for puma, but it's a doctrine unit. Unless Relic make the puma a default unit....

Put the 221 in T1 with no up-gunning. If the MG is already T0 it fills that slot in T1. Give it Vet 1 capture territory powaz like T34 / T70. Now you have a light scout / harassment vehicle that is still very vulnerable, a beefed-up CoH1 US jeep.

Put the Puma in T2 with a 20mm cannon with the option for upgrade to 50mm.

Job done. Tweak fuel to make both a balanced but not risk-free proposition. Soviets have guards / AT nades and T70s to deal with both.

Put the 221 in T1 with no up-gunning..

rip USF

Put the 221 in T1 with no up-gunning.

Thats awesome idea!

Lets make whole soviet tier and the only possible USF opening invalid, because who needs balance?