Reduce ROF but make the squad take suppression when hit, since the point of snipers are to keep the enemies heads down anyway.
Ostheer Sniper Op, When NERF ?
7 Jul 2015, 12:20 PM
#61
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
7 Jul 2015, 12:24 PM
#62
Posts: 100
Fanboism at its best.
Sorry that i have to be so rude but are you even thinking before you say something ?
Doesnt seem so,if you arent a noob and you got some experience with the OH sniper you cant lose it.
When you lose it its only your fault : m20 - grens close to sniper,clown car - gren - mortar ? - cant even kill with one shot on his head ,what else do you have ?
Its not possible to always be cautious but if grens or hmg cover your rears ,you will see the enemy early enough to move your sniper on a safer retreat route.
Try to arguement
But it is the same with the soviet sniper. The OH-Sniper has much health and the soviet onea is a two-men-sniperteam. So I guess the survivability is pretty much the same.
7 Jul 2015, 12:24 PM
#63
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Sneaky spoiler 
@sigah
In any situation that isn't sniper duel, the ost sniper survivability is better.
@sigah
In any situation that isn't sniper duel, the ost sniper survivability is better.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Jul 2015, 12:25 PM
#64
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
Reduce ROF but make the squad take suppression when hit, since the point of snipers are to keep the enemies heads down anyway.
One of your worst ideas ever. If sniper manages to suppress lonely squad it 100% forced to retreat or it would be lost. Sniper shouldn't autowin infantry squads 1v1 despite its high cost.
Don't we already have example in game of how bad idea of mobile suppression platforms is? And this one would be even worse because of high damage it does.
7 Jul 2015, 12:31 PM
#65
Posts: 100
@sigah
In any situation that isn't sniper duel, the ost sniper survivability is better.
Why? In my opinion a well-played soviet sniper, is as difficult to kill as the OH-Sniper.
Besides that, the snipers in general are a unit with high survivability. Because they stay usually behind the frontline and they can be - in case of danger - easily retreated.
7 Jul 2015, 12:31 PM
#66
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
One of your worst ideas ever. If sniper manages to suppress lonely squad it 100% forced to retreat or it would be lost. Sniper shouldn't autowin infantry squads 1v1 despite its high cost.
Don't we already have example in game of how bad idea of mobile suppression platforms is? And this one would be even worse because of high damage it does.
Which is why you reduce the ROF to make it take a while to kill a lone squad, or at least make it so when infantry squads take a hit from a sniper they hit the deck as it were for a while.
This way you can maintain the effectiveness of snipers while reducing their lethality. Trust me if you think it's OP now? Well, you really ain't seen nothing yet.
7 Jul 2015, 12:54 PM
#67
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
Sneaky spoiler
@sigah
In any situation that isn't sniper duel, the ost sniper survivability is better.
/disagree
If my observations correct, Wehrmacht sniper cloaks faster than Soviet sniper takes aim, while still being able to place shot faster that Soviet sniper team cloaks.
(Stat wizard needed to confirm)
This means that as Wehrmacht you can win sniper duel (or simply avoid it while killing other squads) if you properly use cloaking and hold fire abilities.
7 Jul 2015, 13:10 PM
#68
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Target tables are the proper way to fix the Ost sniper
Depending on which unit is targeted the rof or aim time changes.
So you could have still the same rof against soviets, but lower against usf & brits
Depending on which unit is targeted the rof or aim time changes.
So you could have still the same rof against soviets, but lower against usf & brits
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
7 Jul 2015, 13:15 PM
#69
Posts: 708 | Subs: 1
Reduce health to 70 hp or reduce rof by 33%.
7 Jul 2015, 13:16 PM
#70
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
Target tables are the proper way to fix the Ost sniper
Depending on which unit is targeted the rof or aim time changes.
So you could have still the same rof against soviets, but lower against usf & brits
In the same way we could fix lots of problems, like shreck/zook snipes and making the soviet sniper not utter shit against 5-6 man squads.
7 Jul 2015, 13:24 PM
#71
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
Although efficient to deal with certain balance problems, target tables are hell to maintan, makes harder for player to understand balance between units (have to know particular obscured data) and are bad design in general.
(If I correctly understand how they work)
Just my 2 cents.
(If I correctly understand how they work)
Just my 2 cents.
7 Jul 2015, 13:27 PM
#72
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
If it was up to me, I would remove snipers from game and replace them with combat/sniping units like Pathfinder or Jaegers. Such unit should be weaker than Grens/Cons but in exchange for ability to snipe, just like sniper if HP is lower than 60%/50%
No more deadly snipers blob. No more snipinig since the first minute in exchange for combined arms, since you must use some units to lower HP.
But since we have snipers... Well, I was called a cheater, noob and sniper spammer in game where my 2 SU snipers were eating whole OST MP
On the topic, I'm fine with OST sniper. The only thing I would change is received accuracy cause sometimes he's damn immue to fire.
I would also increase Scout Car accuracy on the move cause upgraded SC has problems to kill even 1 model of SU snipers when chasing retreat path which is pathetic.
No more deadly snipers blob. No more snipinig since the first minute in exchange for combined arms, since you must use some units to lower HP.
But since we have snipers... Well, I was called a cheater, noob and sniper spammer in game where my 2 SU snipers were eating whole OST MP
On the topic, I'm fine with OST sniper. The only thing I would change is received accuracy cause sometimes he's damn immue to fire.
I would also increase Scout Car accuracy on the move cause upgraded SC has problems to kill even 1 model of SU snipers when chasing retreat path which is pathetic.
7 Jul 2015, 14:34 PM
#73
3 Posts: 658
My problem with snipers is that both WFA factions have no tools to deal with them.
As Soviets I can get my own snipers, as OST I can get ambush camo (no joke )or snipers, as OKW I can at least try to get them with Falls but as USF you have to rely on your opponent making a mistake.
Using light vehicles (as any faction) is very risky because of mines / vehicle snares and bumrushing snipers with infantry seems quite pointless because they simply get kited.
On topic: It's fine that the OST sniper has higher RoF (ATM; we'll see how it works with the new faction) but its survivability is too high. Increasing its received accuracy, as Australian Magic suggested, seems to be a good solution.
As Soviets I can get my own snipers, as OST I can get ambush camo (no joke
)or snipers, as OKW I can at least try to get them with Falls but as USF you have to rely on your opponent making a mistake. Using light vehicles (as any faction) is very risky because of mines / vehicle snares and bumrushing snipers with infantry seems quite pointless because they simply get kited.
On topic: It's fine that the OST sniper has higher RoF (ATM; we'll see how it works with the new faction) but its survivability is too high. Increasing its received accuracy, as Australian Magic suggested, seems to be a good solution.
7 Jul 2015, 14:36 PM
#74
Posts: 262
Let's give Wehrmacht choice to have Tiger I from start, but block ability to build other units.
That means there are no grens of MG squads. IF u kill Tiger early its GG for him.
U can
In hoc signo vinces!
7 Jul 2015, 15:42 PM
#75
Posts: 1024 | Subs: 1
PFussies push? I always fear PFussies when using snipers because of their unstoppable 6-maniness.
Sorry but PF's are doctrinal. Snipers aren't. This is only one way to choose poor doctrine if I want to counter snipers?
7 Jul 2015, 15:48 PM
#76
Posts: 770
You say it the way that makes it seem like sov player doesn't need to protect their snipers from ACs or support them with cons, or that 360mp for sov is less then 360mp for ost, while in fact its the opposite.
Im not saying that at all. but the m3 with the flamer and the m20 are way better at it and come significantly earlier . in fact their are plenty of cases where i used an ac to chase an sniper team all the way to the base and still it didnt manage to kill it.
The fact remains that the allies have way better anti sniper options then the axis. lets look what alslayer has to say:
PFussies push? I always fear PFussies when using snipers because of their unstoppable 6-maniness.
He is correct but this about the only anti sniper option you have until obers or luchs.
7 Jul 2015, 16:13 PM
#77
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Sorry but PF's are doctrinal. Snipers aren't. This is only one way to choose poor doctrine if I want to counter snipers?
or choose fals , jaegers
You are having option of 3 doctrines agains snipers - you must adapt as well as your doctrinal choice to fight agains enemy build order .
Target tables are the proper way to fix the Ost sniper
Depending on which unit is targeted the rof or aim time changes.
So you could have still the same rof against soviets, but lower against usf & brits
it would be good idea , but only for snipers not for other units , this would fix many problems agains USA or NDA faction without making sniper complete crap
7 Jul 2015, 17:04 PM
#78
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
Sorry but PF's are doctrinal. Snipers aren't. This is only one way to choose poor doctrine if I want to counter snipers?
Never thought that I would argue with someone about how it is unfair that stock Soviet units would force someone to choose specific doctrine.
What about Falls? (if Luftwaffe doctrine isn't poor for you)
I guess rushing any light vehicle because Soviet T1 have zero AT.
Flak track would be general choice, but Puma may be better if he went flamer clowncar.
7 Jul 2015, 17:06 PM
#79
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Luring his clown car over a mine is the counter to flame clowncars. But Snipers are inherently unfair to USF and OKW due to lack of them and the lack of good indirect fire options to deal with them.
JLI and Pathfinders getting slightly less range than regular snipers so they can preform the roll of anti-sniper work would be interesting.
JLI and Pathfinders getting slightly less range than regular snipers so they can preform the roll of anti-sniper work would be interesting.
7 Jul 2015, 17:17 PM
#80
Posts: 1024 | Subs: 1
Never thought that I would argue with someone about how it is unfair that stock Soviet units would force someone to choose specific doctrine.
What about Falls? (if Luftwaffe doctrine isn't poor for you)
I guess rushing any light vehicle because Soviet T1 have zero AT.
Flak track would be general choice, but Puma may be better if he went flamer clowncar.
Fall's are good but not really vs snipers. When they are sniped, squad losing 25% of firepower, so this would be hard to counter when fe, enemy got 2 snipers and after one series, you'r loosing 50% of firepower and you are forced to retreat because 2 models of fallshimjagers will die too fast when snipers are protected. So yeah, its good unit but no for counter snipers.
Flak it's good idea till when he has not guards or ptrs cons spam (also ptrs in m3 are very scary)
or choose fals , jaegers
You are having option of 3 doctrines agains snipers - you must adapt as well as your doctrinal choice to fight agains enemy build order .
I'll take that as a joke'
JLI and Pathfinders getting slightly less range than regular snipers so they can preform the roll of anti-sniper work would be interesting.
Yeah, Patchfinders in vet3 are very potent against snipers
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