Cruzz's The More You Know

USF:
Rifle/Lieut/Capt 97% 35 28/25/30 1.4/1.5/1.5

not quite accurate.

The thompson using officers doesn't get any RA bonus and cost 50 mp to reinforce.
the attendant rifleman models for the Lt and Capt do have the 3% bonus, but the attendant rear echelon (long coat) do not.

the two officer squads for the US are a mess really.

Question, Do MG42 and .50 Cal bulletins also affect bunkers and fighting positions or just the HMG units?

Is better to build sandbags on red cover or on normal cover or it is on both the same ?

Is better to build sandbags on red cover or on normal cover or it is on both the same ?

You get, red, yellow or green cover. Build sandbags and you have green cover. It's directional though so if somebody gets behind you on a road then you are exposed.

Ok thanks.

not quite accurate.

That list was purely for recrewing and mostly to show which squad you actually should recrew with (ie. definitely not captain because even the best (which is the one shown on the list) out of 3 crew outcomes you can get with it is worse in every way than a rifleman recrew)

Question, Do MG42 and .50 Cal bulletins also affect bunkers and fighting positions or just the HMG units?

Only HMG units

Is it possible to design a unit that is capable of shooting through small environmental objects (fences) and/or terrain but that cannot shoot through large shot blockers such as houses?

Yes

Burst small arms and focus_fire: false

HMGs and a select number of other small arms have focus_fire: false. What this option does is effectively give every bullet two chances to hit, once as normal and if that one misses then it will check the scatter area for another target and try another hit roll. This is effectively extra damage (and suppression for HMGs) spread over random targets next to whatever you're firing at. You can see this effect with the Kubel pretty easily as it often leaves squads with a lot of models but low health due to on average firing 1.8 bullets at random targets for every 1 that hits the model it's firing on.


Small arms with focus_fire: false:
BAR
Grease Gun
hmg42
mp40
mp44
ppsh
Maxim
DSHK
hmg34
fg42
kubel
OKW mp44

Bless you, Cruzz, and everyone else who has contributed to this thread, you're doing God's work.
Here's my little bit.



Shock troops aren't the only ones with armor.
Precisely 1 model out of 5 of the OST Assault Grenadier's squad is labeled as a "leader" in the game files, and has 1.5 armor. Literally every other stat is shared between the models.

Indeed, thanks a bunch for all of this useful information. Knowing is half the battle~

Another bulletin question; are the % increases a flat increase (I.E. 3 more out of 100 shots will penetrate armor) or a % increase of the stat (I.E. 200 penetration is now 206 Penetration) and therefore units will higher base stats benefit more. Are those changes even really worth a damn? lol

Get RET defensive stance like riflemen if they grab lmg ?

Love the quote Cruzz, you need a smurf forum account called "The Onion Cruzz" for your clear bias.

Get RET defensive stance like riflemen if they grab lmg ?

Only Riflemen get the benefit of the LMG.

That focus fire thing is really interesting. I always wondered how Relic managed to make damage spread out over multiple models without recreating the mess that was Opposing Fronts on release.

For those who weren't there, in CoH1 every member in a squad shot at a single infantryman in a squad, which looked silly because the tracers from both squads would be pointed at one guy on the other side. Relic tried to fix this by having each model choose his own target. The problem was this lead to firefights where nobody died until the last few seconds, until entire squads suddenly died in one volley. Some players even accused Relic of adding "Squad Health" because squads died so quickly when their collective health ran low. PE suffered the most due to their small squad sizes, and having 4 men with less than 1/4 health wasn't rare. They reverted the system after complaints.

That focus fire thing is really interesting. I always wondered how Relic managed to make damage spread out over multiple models without recreating the mess that was Opposing Fronts on release.

For those who weren't there, in CoH1 every member in a squad shot at a single infantryman in a squad, which looked silly because the tracers from both squads would be pointed at one guy on the other side. Relic tried to fix this by having each model choose his own target. The problem was this lead to firefights where nobody died until the last few seconds, until entire squads suddenly died in one volley. Some players even accused Relic of adding "Squad Health" because squads died so quickly when their collective health ran low. PE suffered the most due to their small squad sizes, and having 4 men with less than 1/4 health wasn't rare. They reverted the system after complaints.

dow2 had a similar (possibly the same) system in place for a lot of the bolter weapons for a long time. the result was that stacking a bunch of squads in a line spread the dps of units like space marines out along all the units which made it much harder to kill models.

Just another thought on the "cover less than 10 units away doesn't count": Does that mean that wiring off cover is pointless, or is that enough distance to give the defenders the benefit of cover while denying it to the attackers?

Correct me if i'm wrong, but against green cover you are still receiving .5 damage. What is negated is the accuracy modifier.

Just another thought on the "cover less than 10 units away doesn't count": Does that mean that wiring off cover is pointless, or is that enough distance to give the defenders the benefit of cover while denying it to the attackers?

it certainly helps for long ranged fights so that the enemy can't camp there and shoot at you on approach. idk how much it help for close ranged stuff though.

it certainly helps for long ranged fights so that the enemy can't camp there and shoot at you on approach.

Ah, that's a good thought. Although the wall would still be potentially blocking your shots as you approach, so at best it simply levels the playing field.

So is the shot-blocking effect of cover calculated at a flat rate, and by getting within that range of 10 units it then stops having a negative effect on your shots? In which case, the distance of wire would be very relevant.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but against green cover you are still receiving .5 damage. What is negated is the accuracy modifier.

You are wrong, both modifiers are negated.

Now to give the usual suspects something to abuse. Was pretty disappointed to see nothing about this issue had been fixed the past year.

How Suppression Works:
Penalties for suppression and pinShow Spoiler

Penalties for firing on suppressed/pinned unitsShow Spoiler
Suppression value required for suppress: 0.2
Suppression value required for pin: 0.6
Suppression value at which unit recovers from suppress: 0.15
Suppression value at which unit recovers from pin: 0.5
Suppression modifiers against cover: 0.1 green, 0.5 yellow, 1 nothing, 1.5 red.
Suppression recovery rate: 0.008 per second, multiplied by 0.5 in red, 1 in nothing, 2.5 in yellow, 5 in green
Units gain a 50* multiplier to recovery rate after 7 seconds of being out of combat.

Suppression is a squad value. Individual models don't feature into the equation except for the guy the suppressing weapon is firing on, whose cover will be used to determine the penalty applied to both regular suppression and AOE suppression. Suppression is always applied regardless of whether the bullet hits or misses. AOE suppression is only applied on hit.

Now let me explain why this is utterly broken. Because aoe suppression takes its modifier from the thing that its firing on, this means that any squad in front of green cover being shot at will make stuff behind the green cover suppress extremely fast as well through aoe suppression. AOE suppression also triggers from vehicles, especially as they are guaranteed to be hit with their large target sizes, leading to even faster aoe suppression behind green cover. And to top it all off you can fire on neutral structures like built razorwire, tank traps, and empty buildings* on map , to gain massive aoe suppression against green cover without any way for your opponent to avoid it. Only soviet sandbags have been fixed of this issue, every other neutral object is free game for suppression abuse

*Units fire silly short bursts against empty buildings so they aren't too good for this. Still way better than firing at green cover though.

Recovery works in combat, though is clearly interrupted by some events like receiving and receiving damage. As such while it's fairly easy to keep units not in cover suppressed just by firing at them occasionally because the natural recovery speed will take quite a while to remove suppression, against units in green cover you will have to be actively doing something to them in order to stop them from recovering.

Incremental accuracy is probably +15% for every 2 or 3 models in the search area in addition to the one being fired upon. It's definitely not per each model. Takes too long to test to give a certain answer.

Cruzz our Lord and Savior has spoken. this is the truth you all wanted to see.
I completely agree with cruzz OpieOP

You are wrong, both modifiers are negated.

Now to give the usual suspects something to abuse. Was pretty disappointed to see nothing about this issue had been fixed the past year.

How Suppression Works:
Penalties for suppression and pinShow Spoiler

Penalties for firing on suppressed/pinned unitsShow Spoiler

Suppression value required for suppress: 0.2
Suppression value required for pin: 0.6
Suppression value at which unit recovers from suppress: 0.15
Suppression value at which unit recovers from pin: 0.5
Suppression modifiers against cover: 0.1 green, 0.5 yellow, 1 nothing, 1.5 red.
Suppression recovery rate: 0.008 per second, multiplied by 0.5 in red, 1 in nothing, 2.5 in yellow, 5 in green
Units gain a 50* multiplier to recovery rate after 7 seconds of being out of combat.

Suppression is a squad value. Individual models don't feature into the equation except for the guy the suppressing weapon is firing on, whose cover will be used to determine the penalty applied to both regular suppression and AOE suppression. Suppression is always applied regardless of whether the bullet hits or misses. AOE suppression is only applied on hit.

Now let me explain why this is utterly broken. Because aoe suppression takes its modifier from the thing that its firing on, this means that any squad in front of green cover being shot at, will make stuff behind the green cover suppress extremely fast as well. AOE suppression also triggers from vehicles, especially as they are guaranteed to be hit with their large target sizes, leading to even faster aoe suppression behind green cover. And to top it all off you can fire on neutral structures like built razorwire, tank traps, and empty buildings* on map , to gain massive aoe suppression against green cover without any way for your opponent to avoid it. Only soviet sandbags have been fixed of this issue, every other neutral object is free game for suppression abuse

*Units fire silly short bursts against empty buildings so they aren't too good for this. Still way better than firing at green cover though.

Recovery works in combat, though is clearly interrupted by some events like receiving and receiving damage. As such while it's fairly easy to keep units not in cover suppressed just by firing at them occasionally because the natural recovery speed will take quite a while to remove suppression, against units in green cover you will have to be actively doing something to them in order to stop them from recovering.

Incremental accuracy is probably +15% for every 2 or 3 models in the search area in addition to the one being fired upon. It's definitely not per each model. Takes too long to test to give a certain answer.