Pershing ?
Posts: 1217
I would call the 76mm Sherman a tougher opponent though, because the Russian T-34 (even in the 85mm version) lacked pretty much anything that lets your crew perform up to the task.
Tbh: I think giving the Amis a better medium tank in form of a 76mm Sherman upgrade and a Jumbo as a heavy would have been sufficient. Maybe a Hellcat for doctrines.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Uhu, the only problem was the 76mm Sherman and T34/85s needing to be under 500 meters to have even a change of penetrating the tiger frontally, where the Tiger H1 could penetrate them at ranges well over 1500 meters
When the Soviet High Command tested a captured German Tiger H1 back in 1943, they were shocked to see that the only guns capable of penetrating the tiger frontally were the 85mm and higher calibers. Yet the 85mm needed to close in at about 300 meters to stand a fair change of penetrating the front. Untill they designed tanks with larger caliber guns (Is2 etc) the 85 mm would be fitted on the t34/85s as a stop gap.
'Soviet firing tests against a captured Tiger I heavy tank in April 1943 showed that the T-34's 76 mm gun could not penetrate the front of the Tiger I at all, and the side only at very close range. A Soviet 85 mm antiaircraft gun, the 52-K, was found capable of doing the job, and so derivatives of it were developed for tanks. The resulting tank gun could penetrate the side armour of the Tiger I from a distance of 800 meters and the turret side from a distance of 600 meters. It was still not enough to match the Tiger, as a Tiger could destroy the T-34 from a distance of 1,500 to 2,000 meters,but it was a noticeable improvement.'
* Pyatakhin, Dmitry. "The New Generation of Soviet Armor vs. Tigers". Achtung Panzer. Retrieved 2014-12-22.
http://tankarchives.blogspot.de/2013/03/soviet-85-mm-guns-vs-tigers.html
"Conclusion: the armour piercing shell can penetrate the side of the Tiger tank, 82 mm thick, from 1500 meters, and the front, 100 mm thick, from 1000 meters."
T34/76 had to close in.
34/85 could freely engage at 1000-1500m depending on the position of tiger.
Pretty much the same for 76mm shermans.
Stop the BS now kk? You're going way too much into axis superior tanks mythology and steering thread offtopic with historical bullshit.
Posts: 96
Posts: 978
"In February of 1944, T-34 was rearmed with the new long-barreled 85mm S-53 gun and then in mid-1944 with 85mm ZIS-S-53. This new gun could penetrate the side armor of the Tiger I from a distance of 800 meters and the turret side from a distance of 600 meters. It was not enough-as before, the Tiger could destroy the T-34 from a distance of 1,500 to 2,000 meters."
Considering the side could be engaged at 800 meters and that the frontal armor was 20mm thicker, that shortens the engagement range for the 85mm from the front further, about 300-400m is what it was.
Nice to see Katitoff spreading Soviet biased information. Those russian tests are bullshit and known to be adjusted into the soviets favor. Alone the title: "70 years of victory" coupled with a red flag and fist should give you enough information who posted that data.
Posts: 1702
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/the-new-generation-of-soviet-armor-vs-tigers.htm
"In February of 1944, T-34 was rearmed with the new long-barreled 85mm S-53 gun and then in mid-1944 with 85mm ZIS-S-53. This new gun could penetrate the side armor of the Tiger I from a distance of 800 meters and the turret side from a distance of 600 meters. It was not enough-as before, the Tiger could destroy the T-34 from a distance of 1,500 to 2,000 meters."
Considering the side could be engaged at 800 meters and that the frontal armor was 20mm thicker, that shortens the engagement range for the 85mm from the front further, about 300-400m is what it was.
Nice to see Katitoff spreading Soviet biased information. Those russian tests are bullshit and known to be adjusted into the soviets favor. Alone the title: "70 years of victory" coupled with a red flag and fist should give you enough information who posted that data.
It's as simple as that. The 85mm gun had around 100mm of armor penetration at 1000m. And what's exactly wrong with russian testing? Those are wartime tests, and the author of the site is just simply posting them on the internet.
The t-34/85 and su-85 was a direct response to counter the german tigers, and it did it's job reasonably well.
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/the-new-generation-of-soviet-armor-vs-tigers.htm
"In February of 1944, T-34 was rearmed with the new long-barreled 85mm S-53 gun and then in mid-1944 with 85mm ZIS-S-53. This new gun could penetrate the side armor of the Tiger I from a distance of 800 meters and the turret side from a distance of 600 meters. It was not enough-as before, the Tiger could destroy the T-34 from a distance of 1,500 to 2,000 meters."
Considering the side could be engaged at 800 meters and that the frontal armor was 20mm thicker, that shortens the engagement range for the 85mm from the front further, about 300-400m is what it was.
Nice to see Katitoff spreading Soviet biased information. Those russian tests are bullshit and known to be adjusted into the soviets favor. Alone the title: "70 years of victory" coupled with a red flag and fist should give you enough information who posted that data.
Would it be surprise to you if I told you there were a couple of different shells used and based on that, you'll get varying penetration numbers?
Posts: 4928
Would it be surprise to you if I told you there were a couple of different shells used and based on that, you'll get varying penetration numbers?
Ammunition type is the difference between the 76mm M1 tank gun being comparable to the Panzer IV's gun, or being comparable to the Panther's gun! Too bad that sweet sweet HVAP was in limited supply and mostly reserved for Hellcat crews.
Posts: 587
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Permanently BannedIts finally going to happen, PERSHING ACE doctrine, with 16CP Pershing 1 shotting everything with 0.5 damage modifier and a golden skin!
This triggered me
thank you
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently BannedPershing will at least be interesting with people spamming it thinking it's the answers to all their hopes and dreams when well, it's a Panther with even worse mobility.
Yes! Let the butt-hurt consume you!
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Yes! Let the butt-hurt consume you!
How is it butthurt? A lot of people seem to have misnomers about what the Pershing is. It's not an Allied KT/Tiger I nor is it an IS2. The most analogous tank to it is the PV
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
How is it butthurt? A lot of people seem to have misnomers about what the Pershing is. It's not an Allied KT/Tiger I nor is it an IS2. The most analogous tank to it is the PV
Lol 99% of people here have played vcoh. Those of us who want pershing, just want the vcoh one back. Which was basically a slower panther with high pen and good frontal. With its up-gun upgrade and vet2, it could kill tigers.
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Lol 99% of people here have played vcoh. Those of us who want pershing, just want the vcoh one back. Which was basically a slower panther with high pen and good frontal. With its up-gun upgrade and vet2, it could kill tigers.
I know I have faith that there is noooooo way Relic could ever mess this up
Posts: 354
Those russian tests are bullshit and known to be adjusted into the soviets favor. Alone the title: "70 years of victory" coupled with a red flag and fist should give you enough information who posted that data.
Don't like Russian sources, even official documents and archive materials, which were used for engineers and military, not for public - here you go,
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/soviet-union/guns.asp
85 mm ZiS-S-53 with different types of ammunition, data from "Russian Tanks and Armored Vehicles 1917-1945", by Wolfgang Fleischer (German), 1999.
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
I know I have faith that there is noooooo way Relic could ever mess this up
This just in! Super pershing ace with target weakpoint, all the smoke, and a ranger crew that throws grenades out of the tank!
Only $10.00!
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
This just in! Super pershing ace with target weakpoint, all the smoke, and a ranger crew that throws grenades out of the tank!
Only $10.00!
You KNOW why that's funny you bastard [NDA intensifies]
Posts: 120
Permanently Banned
http://tankarchives.blogspot.de/2013/03/soviet-85-mm-guns-vs-tigers.html
T34/76 had to close in.
34/85 could freely engage at 1000-1500m depending on the position of tiger.
Pretty much the same for 76mm shermans.
Stop the BS now kk? You're going way too much into axis superior tanks mythology and steering thread offtopic with historical bullshit.
HAHA, you are a funny guy Katikoff. But anything you claim, I always find to be anything but real let alone reality
The link you provided shows me nothing than tanks that have a flat surface that has been shot at. No frontal or slightly angled front shots. Stop spreading lies you fan boy. You play the least of all the people here, yet you claim godlike knowlegde. You are wrong once again
just look at the first comment on that blogspot:
All these shots appear to have been fired at 90°, whereas the Tiger's manual specifically asked their crews to position their hulls always at 45° during engagement
further more, those pictures show large numbers of non penetrating hits, which will reduce armor value and capability after a while. Still not convinced.
Posts: 120
Permanently Banned
Would it be surprise to you if I told you there were a couple of different shells used and based on that, you'll get varying penetration numbers?
Sure, but the t34/85 could not penetrate the front of the tiger at a range exceeding 300-400 meters. Just because Fury and other Holywood fables togheter with Coh2 show you something, doesn't mean it is true.
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