Heavy Tank Limit

Limiting KT to one won't hurt anything and can put this thread to rest so we won't see it pop up every week for the next few months(until patch).

Yep. My opinion on this balance change is that while it was done with good intention it missed the mark. It should have been done by doubling or tripling pop cap of the heavy tanks.

you cant actually be serious can you?

Some players talk here like a heavy tank is a undefeatable monster that is impossible to kill.
Usually 2 tank destroyers, a mine or a snare/block with other tank is enough to destroy heavy tanks.

From all heavy tanks I think the tiger is the easiest to destroy due low armour, then comes the king tiger due low speed and turret rotation speed.

Their pop cap is in a good place, increasing it would lead to the situation that good players simply won't use any heavy tanks in 1vs1 or 2vs2 anymore.

The King Tiger is not limited to 1 on the field since it isn't a call in. You will find it missing in the patch note's list of heavies that are affected by the limit change.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/67-coh-2-changelog?p=179158#post179158

Relic did state that they are further evaluating on whether to limit the king tiger as well.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forum/company-of-heroes-2/company-of-heroes-2-general-discussion/179157-june-23rd-patch-notes-official-feedback-thread?p=179272#post179272

Well I am pretty sure that in the pastebin was mentioned the KT as well. It seems that in patchnotes it's not mentioned anymore.

Anyway, someone said here a wise thing (I think it was Napalm) then other guys aproved him. After all, why are we so stuck in this heavies problem? Is it a real problem? Why not field several heavies? What was so wrong about it? Oh, yeah, people want to use tires units more but this affects factions in different ways. I mean it's better for axis - which can field better stock units - and worst for allied. Soviets are relying especially on their powerfull doctrines than tear units. And doctrines means call-ins. Why so much contempt related to "Company of call-ins"?

Or, you can make heavies require much more popcap. Fielding 2-3 at a time should let you with verry few options to build other units/reinforce the ones you allready have. That could balance better the call-in phenomenon. Balance it, not totaly kill it.

Or, Relic should release ALL of aplha changes, not give us little bits and transform a cool vision of a future status of the game into what we have today: something dubious. But this has been said already.

Double King Tiger from one player seems to me around the same level of importance as USF being able to build up beyond pop cap. Whatever if they change it to maximum of 1.

The question is if 2 KT's are OP. Considering the cost for the okw and the fact their speed makes them the weakest of all the 3 heavies im not sure this is necessary. but at the same time i have no issue if the limit of the KT's are set to one.

Well, unsupported KT is definitely the easiest heavy to deal with.

But with support and considering what that support can be we end up with quite a formidable beast there.
Can't see how anyone would be able to get a pair though outside of luftwaffe supply ally.

If your opponent can get two KTs (or a KT and a call in heavy), you either have a shitload of Jacksons or two IS2s, or a few t34-85s or a few su85s.

If your opponent can get two KTs (or a KT and a call in heavy) and you cant get a shitload of Jacksons, two IS2s, a few t34-85s or a few su85s, something went horribly wrong on your side xd

Adding 5-6 more pop cap yeah might help but doubling would make it impossible to make heavy vehicles because most players are at or above 60 pop cap by the time they become available.

If you want to reduce spam but increase choice tie call in's to teching. So if you want Tiger/IS2/Jadgtiger you have to fully complete teching. This would make it so you have to actually invest rather than stall and then spam with a massive fuel reserve you built up because you didn't have to tech.

I strongly agree with Alex here but I think soviet need a little tech overhaul to compensate (NDA I'm locking at you)

If your opponent can get two KTs (or a KT and a call in heavy), you either have a shitload of Jacksons or two IS2s, or a few t34-85s or a few su85s.

If your opponent can get two KTs (or a KT and a call in heavy) and you cant get a shitload of Jacksons, two IS2s, a few t34-85s or a few su85s, something went horribly wrong on your side xd

You can't get 2 IS2s.

What happens in big team games is that Jacksons, T34s and SU85s are all medium tanks. They have low armor and low health compared to heavy tanks. The result is that it is easy to lose one here and there.

The KT on the other hand is a lot easier to keep alive. You won't lose it to small ambushes like you would lose a jackson if it got ambushed by a vet 1 stugG. You have to seriously over extend a KT to have it killed. 2 OKW heavy tanks is not that hard to achieve in big team games if you don't take needless risks. And once you have those 2 tanks... Well.. Good Luck allies...

I am shocked to learn that KT is not considered heavy tank.
2 KTs is OKW shooting himself in the leg in my opinion, i wish every OKw i play against will go for 2 KTS, good luck with that.
But Jadgtiger + KT + Stuka? without mark-targed / p47 "kill all armor pressing 1 button" on open maps is game over for the allies.

KT is totally gotta be a heavy tank. OKW can add panthers for more AT or nuclear mortar launchers for more AI, but if i can't get 2 is2 please no KT+Jagtiger

OP post a 4vs4 screenshot. Discussion ends here.

OP post a 4vs4 screenshot. Discussion ends here.

Read the posts again, the 1 heavy limitation is for 3v3 and 4v4s n00b.

Anyway, someone said here a wise thing (I think it was Napalm) then other guys aproved him. After all, why are we so stuck in this heavies problem? Is it a real problem? Why not field several heavies? What was so wrong about it? Oh, yeah, people want to use tires units more but this affects factions in different ways. I mean it's better for axis - which can field better stock units - and worst for allied. Soviets are relying especially on their powerfull doctrines than tear units.

I was not expecting this from you. Applause.

If Relic needs to implement this limitation, I think it is fair to restrict all armies in their heavy tank build (call ins). I personally think it is ridiculous to limit strategies, makes the game stale.

I was not expecting this from you. Applause.

I am for a balanced game. If something is to cheesee I dislike that, even if I use it too. Also, I dislike things that are limiting players' imagination and continuous search for strategies. I play the game with all factions, even though I tend to play more with axis.

You can't get 2 IS2s.

What happens in big team games is that Jacksons, T34s and SU85s are all medium tanks. They have low armor and low health compared to heavy tanks. The result is that it is easy to lose one here and there.

The KT on the other hand is a lot easier to keep alive. You won't lose it to small ambushes like you would lose a jackson if it got ambushed by a vet 1 stugG. You have to seriously over extend a KT to have it killed. 2 OKW heavy tanks is not that hard to achieve in big team games if you don't take needless risks. And once you have those 2 tanks... Well.. Good Luck allies...

I meant fuel wise 2 Is2s, supported with one or two SU85s and you can rape any KT you come across

I meant fuel wise 2 Is2s, supported with one or two SU85s and you can rape any KT you come across

What do you want to say? 75 supply of an impossible to acquire army (unless you can find an abandoned IS-2) worth ~1800mp and 740fuel can beat a KT? I'd better well hope so. I don't see how this has anything to do with the discussion at hand though.

you cant actually be serious can you?

Please, do tell why balancing through pop cap and resources is a bad idea opposed to implementing hard limits on units.

So you guys keep forgetting the point here.
Medium armor spam counters all this patch.
If you haven't realized this yet...........gl hf

EDIT: Fanbois trying to get more heavy tanks out to counter other heavy tanks.

Please, do tell why balancing through pop cap and resources is a bad idea opposed to implementing hard limits on units.

Lol, heavy tanks are not so imbalanced that they need to be worth half or 3/4 your entire pop cap.

Read the posts again, the 1 heavy limitation is for 3v3 and 4v4s n00b.

Dont give me wrong. But I can hardly believe that a heavy tank limitation is an issue in 3vs3 or 4vs4. A real balance in those 2 mods in a very unsymmetrical balanced game is in my opinion difficult and would destroy balance in the real competitive 1vs1 and 2vs2 mods.
A king tiger + jagt tiger?! The game was already lost before they appeared. But please convince me the opposite and load up a replay of that game. Also watch your language, thank you.