Post Patch Discussion

Because Maxim can repack faster than the MG42.

How come my maxim aint supressing blobs, meanwhile mg42 counters them just fine...

Because long story short there are way more counters vs axis mgs than there are vs the maxim. Add on top of that the faster setup time of the maxim and youd be able to attack move to victory right into the axis base with a maxim blob like in the old days of maxim spam glory.

So I've got three 5% suppression bonuses for a Maxim. If I equip all three of these would the Maxim now effectively have the same buff the other HMGs got?

Nope.

The incremental suppression and accuracy got buffed.

It means the more entities are being blobbed, the higher suppression and accuracy will be.

Maxim doesn't have such modifiers, that is why it have a hard time suppressing even 1 squad in the blob walking over say yellow cover.

ok thank you for answer
-----
next problem kubelwagen it should AOE suppression like maxim is deadly for now

Because long story short there are way more counters vs axis mgs than there are vs the maxim. Add on top of that the faster setup time of the maxim and youd be able to attack move to victory right into the axis base with a maxim blob like in the old days of maxim spam glory.

There were a lot of things that made maxim spam viable in the maxim spam glory days. Squad spacing was wide and limited grenade damage, turning speed was high, ostheer sniper had low health, low small arms fire DPS led to increased benefit of suppressing squads over killing them with rifles and limited the effectiveness of flanking the maxim.

All these things have changed. The turning speed of the maxim was reduced, effectively making it less effective than the MG42 at targeting squads that attack from the front (smaller arch), but more effective at targeting squads that did wide flanks (faster repositioning). Squad clumping was added in, making the maxim vulnerable to arty and rifle grenades (the #1 reason why you hardly saw any maxims made last patch). The Ostheer sniper was buffed enormously. The result was that maxim spam was dead, and that maxims in general were hardly seen as people preferred to just make more conscripts rather than with a HMG that could be rifle grenaded to death from the front with ease.

The maxim _was not_ a good unit last patch, and I do not see why it should remain that way when other HMGs are actually made very potent for once. Things like fast pack-up speed are useless* when the MG can't even suppress 2 squads walking hand-in-hand towards it.

*not completely useless, as you can retreat faster from those squads who walked right in front of your HMG. Oh joy, what an advantage.

ok thank you for answer
-----
next problem kubelwagen it should AOE suppression like maxim is deadly for now

I don't think the kubel will be doing supression at all soon.

No idea why riflenade range increase with vet wasn't changed.

There were a lot of things that made maxim spam viable in the maxim spam glory days. Squad spacing was wide and limited grenade damage, turning speed was high, ostheer sniper had low health, low small arms fire DPS led to increased benefit of suppressing squads over killing them with rifles and limited the effectiveness of flanking the maxim.

All these things have changed. The turning speed of the maxim was reduced, effectively making it less effective than the MG42 at targeting squads that attack from the front (smaller arch), but more effective at targeting squads that did wide flanks (faster repositioning). Squad clumping was added in, making the maxim vulnerable to arty and rifle grenades (the #1 reason why you hardly saw any maxims made last patch). The Ostheer sniper was buffed enormously. The result was that maxim spam was dead, and that maxims in general were hardly seen as people preferred to just make more conscripts rather than with a HMG that could be rifle grenaded to death from the front with ease.

The maxim _was not_ a good unit last patch, and I do not see why it should remain that way when other HMGs are actually made very potent for once. Things like fast pack-up speed are useless* when the MG can't even suppress 2 squads walking hand-in-hand towards it.

*not completely useless, as you can retreat faster from those squads who walked right in front of your HMG. Oh joy, what an advantage.

Ill have to partially disagree. Ill give you the spacing and less lethal nades, alright. But you forgot to mention that the received accuracy modifier that was above 1 got removed some patches ago, not entirely making up for the clumping but slightly compensating for it. The clumping isnt really a problem that is solely witnessed when using maxims. Its just when you use them and they do clump, they make an easy high priority target. Id rifle nade a clumped maxim over a clumped con squad any day if id only have 1 nade and id have to choose. Why? Cause the maxim can suppress me. Same reason youd throw your molotov at the mg42 first before you throw one at a gren squad, if you could choose. Normal rifle nades are somewhat avoidable if the maxim has con support. Vet 2 grens are where the real problem begins.

Ill also have to disagree that you can walk hand in hand into the maxim head on. Tried it. Failed at least 10 times. Faced it myself and shut it down accordingly. Yes, it does require more micro to pin 2 blobbed squads frontally with a maxim than it does with an mg42 but it is well within the range of possible things.

Imo the maxim is a good mg. Maybe not great, but not fucking arse either. It simply underwent a change of functionality if you wanna call it that. Ppl used to run into you head on with a maxim, then set it up and start suppressing you. Of couse that wont work anymore with the nerfed pack up and setup times. And thats a good thing in my book because that shit was just way too annoying for how easy it was to execute. I feel the maxim is now more of an actual support weapon than it is the assault weapon of past times. You screen for it with cons and then suppress whatever squad theyre fighting. Squad is suppressed? Good, let the cons deal with it so those guys dont get back up and focus on the next one. That way you can also stay at max range and if someone decides to run at your mg, hes gonna have your cons in his back, inevitably starting to lose models.

Also, dont forget the super nazi bunker concrete buildings on some maps like shittelbruck. The trainyard there actually takes 2 full barrages from a walking stuka before it goes down. Add on top of that the same ark as an mg42 inside buildings, but still a faster setup time to switch windows and the fact the germans dont have molotovs and wont make it close to you with flamethrowers if you micro your maxim and youre gonna have one hell of a time until tanks arrive.

I feel overall the maxim is much more of a defensive mg these days but if you use it as such it can be a great help to your conscripts and guards/shocks.

Ill have to agree with you on the sniper. I have yet to play against wehrmacht snipers since they were buffed, but I used them a few times myself whenever somebody spammed team weapons and man, they performed well. Even survived a near direct hit from a 120mm once. lol

I don't think the kubel will be doing supression at all soon.

arr I will find another way to deal with it by not use WC truck

It's about adaptation, nothing more, nothing less. Before patch hmgs kinda sucked so you should have relied on infantry blobs (including in ostheer's case) and be mobile. Now that hmgs are stealing the spotlight, you should rely on them or on infantry and HMGs together and play more statically. If you use the same tactic every patch, you will have an easy time when your usual units are buffed and a hard time when they get nurfed.

Well, that's the thing, I don't use the same tactic. Since I'm not a good player and do not want to be good, things like strategic thinking, faction teching objectives and such are very ill-conceived. It's all on me, and that's just fine.

Problem is, I like to take some creative detours, and sometimes it works, sometimes not. Blobbing is not fun, at least for me. I like to make panzergrenadiers, build the occasional leFH and I even have fun using German Infantry Doctrine. It's so sad that, when you try something different, you gotta be very good or you'll be punished by the Meta Bat.

I understand that some tactics will work better than others, this happens in every game known to man. I think, though, it's glorious when the difference in ease and effectiveness of execution of meta and non-meta strategies don't fall so appart of each other.

Interesting new patch,really appreciated although some things disturb me.
As is seems coh2 is going to get a more static warfare which is usually good but...

1)Maxim cant suppress, for instance, lmg gren blobs,ober blobs or any other bigger unit formation.
2)Squads get suppressed even in green cover
3)To win the mp war against axis you have to close in to reach the optimal range for your squads,unfortunately mgs already waiting to insta pin.
4)rifle nades

IMO maxims are clearly UP for their price compared to others.
maxim retreat is the most stupidest bs ever
less blob suppression
no useful vet 1 ability
arc of fire
grenades of all kinds

But you forgot to mention that the received accuracy modifier that was above 1 got removed some patches ago, not entirely making up for the clumping but slightly compensating for it. The clumping isnt really a problem that is solely witnessed when using maxims. Its just when you use them and they do clump, they make an easy high priority target. Id rifle nade a clumped maxim over a clumped con squad any day if id only have 1 nade and id have to choose. Why? Cause the maxim can suppress me. Same reason youd throw your molotov at the mg42 first before you throw one at a gren squad, if you could choose. Normal rifle nades are somewhat avoidable if the maxim has con support. Vet 2 grens are where the real problem begins.

Also, dont forget the super nazi bunker concrete buildings on some maps like shittelbruck. The trainyard there actually takes 2 full barrages from a walking stuka before it goes down. Add on top of that the same ark as an mg42 inside buildings, but still a faster setup time to switch windows and the fact the germans dont have molotovs and wont make it close to you with flamethrowers if you micro your maxim and youre gonna have one hell of a time until tanks arrive.

-Support weapons MG/Mortar still have a a receive accuracy modifier. There was a patch on which Soviet support weapons didn't receive it and another one on which the Zis gun also had it (which none other AT gun did).

-"All team weapons which can be garrisoned within a building now share the same setup/re-position time of 4 seconds. This means a MG42 will take 4 seconds to switch windows and begin firing, as opposed to their old functionality which relied on their reload time. This creates more consistent behavior between team weapons and prevents some weapons from having delays as high as 6 or 7 seconds."

That is just fucking retarded...

The new .50 Cal absolutely decimates light vehicles. Vs Scout Cars, Pumas, and Halftracks two of them are brutally effective.

I see new USF meta as dual RE, dual Rifle, Lieutenant, dual .50 M20. Throw in an AA track of your fighting CAS. (Vet 0 AA mode!)

I also see conservative 4 rifle with upgraded fighting positions into a fast Stuart being brutally effective vs an extended Ostheer T1 or OKW infantry spam.