Patch notes for 23rd June

They don't seem to value your feedback much then. The few changes they make can't all be from your feedback, you overflow them with it in your special places.

Having acces to those places doesn't seem to pay off at all, why would I want acces to those places then? Please do tell me

I don't need your approval to justify my feelings on whether or not my feedback is valued by Relic.

I've witnessed numerous current, and future changes, that were implemented in direct alignment with feedback that I provided.

I've also been thanked on multiple occasions by different Relic employees for the time I've dedicated to discussing changes, testing changes, and giving feedback.

Of course I'm not the master mind behind every change - nor have I ever claimed to be. Plus, not all of my ideas are good. On top of that there are many other community members that have done the same and more than I have. Whether you choose to acknowledge the fact thatd Relic values community feeback is not my problem.

Rest assured, I'm extremely happy with the responses and relationship I have with Relic.

Cpt.Molo is going to have a field day with Guard and 85 spam this patcherino. Less Tigers to contend with.

Gaurd Motor got buffed! Lol

Ostheer even more useless now. GG

So, Soviets got a buff? Hahahahaha

ptrs's drop less?

uninstalled, will give me the great chance to play my amazing backlog of games from steam sale.(Wolfenstein games, the witcher 3, the banner saga, tomb raider) when relic actually does something about the callin meta i shall return, or i'll at least stay away until a meta is formed where there is a reliable counter to it. if everyone is actually serious about hating on relic they should do the same imo.

besides, everyone should be busy on the 23rd already

Su 76 doing more damage than Stug G Kappa. But other than that, I heard a lot of promises from the alpha, good fixes, ostheer teching fixed, call in spam bullshit fixed.

You seem to confuse something. There are no changes to the damage these two units do. The su76 will have 10 more penetration at far and 5 at medium ranges. However axis mediums have for the most part higher armour which makes this difference even more negligible.

As I mentioned the damage remains untouched, which means:

- su76 120 dmg
- stug g 160 dmg

Not only does the stug do 40 damage more it also has a lot more health.

The su76 will need 5 shots to take out a stug, the stug needs 3. I'll leave it to others to make the cost-performance analysis but I'd say the new stug will be rather good.


To clarify the point I tried to do at the start...

su76 vs p4 (ignoring the vet 2 armour increase):

chance to penetrate (at long range for the maximum effect of the higher penetration of the su76): 180/180=1 -> will always penetrate

shots to kill: 640/120=6

getting killed in: 400/160=3 (there is no chance of a p4 shell bouncing on the frontal armour of the su76, regardless of distance (frontal armour is 70))


su76 vs stug g:

chance to penetrate: 1

shots to kill: 5

getting killed in: 3


stug g vs t34-76 (identical for the sherman)

chance to penetrate: 1

shots to kill: 640/160=4

getting killed in: 560/160=4 (please be aware that this ignores the fact that the t34-76 has a 14%/28%/42% chance to deflect, at vet 2 the chances are 32%/44%/55%)


stug vs t34-85 (the interesting one)

chance to penetrate: 170/160=1 (always penetrates)

shots to kill: 800/160=5

getting killed in: 4 (please be aware that this ignores the fact that the t35-85 has a 0%/0%/14% chance to deflect, at vet 2 the chances are 11%/22%/32%)


The stug should perform better accross the board, significantly. The negligible penetration difference at max and medium range has 0 influence and if we were actually to include other higher armoured mediums like the panther and easy 8s, the stug would still come out ahead (the highest medium armour for the allies is the kv1 at 270 armour, the panther has 290, due to the difference in armour and damage for the stug, it would fare better even here).

people need to stop thinking that tigers are the only way to deal with t85s. seriously, there are a wide variety of ways to deal with 85s. okw obviously have their shreks, raketens just got buffed, theres always mines you can place if you munitions to spend, the JP4, and panthers as well.
ostheer have shreks, paks (OBJECTIVELY THE BEST AT GUN in the game), a newly buffed stug that fills in the role of mobile AT, and is basically a poormans JP4, teller mines (which have a high chance of destroying engines), fausts, panzer 4s, etc etc etc. combined arms tactics will defeat the very simple strategy of guards > t85s. you have the tools, USE THEM.

Lol, they nerfed sov mortars to shit. Who needs 82 mm now? Also, we can deploy only one heavy tank, but what about Kt and panthers? Meh and CAS still opieop.

i raised the same issue at the alpha and asked for a scaling soviet non doc tank. But surely this is the change everyone wanted. Pfft

Will Paks be stronger in the next patch? Not because they got a buff, but because the nerf made to Soviet Mortar?

people need to stop thinking that tigers are the only way to deal with t85s. seriously, there are a wide variety of ways to deal with 85s. okw obviously have their shreks, raketens just got buffed, theres always mines you can place if you munitions to spend, the JP4, and panthers as well.
ostheer have shreks, paks (OBJECTIVELY THE BEST AT GUN in the game), a newly buffed stug that fills in the role of mobile AT, and is basically a poormans JP4, teller mines (which have a high chance of destroying engines), fausts, panzer 4s, etc etc etc. combined arms tactics will defeat the very simple strategy of guards > t85s. you have the tools, USE THEM.

Agreed.

Paks chew through T34/85s, Riegel AT mines are also very nice to have against T34/85 spam too. The only place T34/85s get out of hand are in 3v3s and 4v4s where you can suddenly find yourself being attacked by 6-8 premium medium tanks without a moments notice.

Lol, they nerfed sov mortars to shit. Who needs 82 mm now? Also, we can deploy only one heavy tank, but what about Kt and panthers? Meh and CAS still opieop.

Did you read the part where they are able to get flares?? Meanwhile Ost mortar has counter barrage...
Besides, Soviet mortar is far more accurate than Ost mortar. Squad wipe precision strike was broken honestly. This is just one of many squad wipe options gone for the soviets.

people need to stop thinking that tigers are the only way to deal with t85s. seriously, there are a wide variety of ways to deal with 85s. okw obviously have their shreks, raketens just got buffed, theres always mines you can place if you munitions to spend, the JP4, and panthers as well.
ostheer have shreks, paks (OBJECTIVELY THE BEST AT GUN in the game), a newly buffed stug that fills in the role of mobile AT, and is basically a poormans JP4, teller mines (which have a high chance of destroying engines), fausts, panzer 4s, etc etc etc. combined arms tactics will defeat the very simple strategy of guards > t85s. you have the tools, USE THEM.

Paks are not offensive weapons.Relic kept tech costs of ost crippled so panther is unuseable and in any case can't be cost-efficient vs call-in t-34/85.With mark target on top of it.T-34/85s are fast and will 1 shot raketens after first shot.Double t-85s routinely 1 shot shreck pzgrens.Now that fausts are done,paks will be further weakened vs fast strong call-in mediums.
Basically u have no chance to go on the offensive once enemy has t-34/85s out.U can try to set up a defense line and try to hold out thats it.And u will usually always be on the backfoot because allies have earlygame advantage.Its sad that relic balancers are not playing the game they are patching.

Agreed.

Paks chew through T34/85s, Riegel AT mines are also very nice to have against T34/85 spam too. The only place T34/85s get out of hand are in 3v3s and 4v4s where you can suddenly find yourself being attacked by 6-8 premium medium tanks without a moments notice.

Paks won't have fausts to help them..and paks are not offensive weapons.Their usefulness is defense ,u can't really push with them.

Regardless of how good a patch is...

I cant tell a person to Learn To Play a patch that hasnt been released or tested (tested with only a portion of it getting into the live game, that is)

And someone properly explain to me how Guards Motor will be more powerful than right now? Its what most Soviet players are going to choose, but otherwise why?

Keep telling us how shit the patch is when you've never even played it. LOL

I wonder what these awesome changes that are not here, that everyone bitches about

people need to stop thinking that tigers are the only way to deal with t85s. seriously, there are a wide variety of ways to deal with 85s. okw obviously have their shreks, raketens just got buffed, theres always mines you can place if you munitions to spend, the JP4, and panthers as well.
ostheer have shreks, paks (OBJECTIVELY THE BEST AT GUN in the game), a newly buffed stug that fills in the role of mobile AT, and is basically a poormans JP4, teller mines (which have a high chance of destroying engines), fausts, panzer 4s, etc etc etc. combined arms tactics will defeat the very simple strategy of guards > t85s. you have the tools, USE THEM.

I dont think people are upset at lack of counters to callin's. Theres always been counters.

but its the fact that currently your typical player must put in a disproportionate amount of effort in comparison to the easymode spam around for 25 minutes into callins soviet player in order to win. Thats not balanced.


The only way to equalize this effort discrepancy as axis, in a way, is a easymode no tech callin spam tank of your own(the tiger,tiger ace,elefant)

Ostheer ONLY easyPlay button is being taken away but not soviets and their 85s/guards/mortars/whatever. That is why people are pissed. Why should ostheer have to use all these different combined arms and tactics and actual strategy while soviets just CONS>GUARD>SANDBAG>85s?

you can use paks as offensive weapons, as long as you keep them behind your advancing infantry. bind them to their own control group, and keep attack moving your AT guns behind your line. its actually not that hard, but it does require you to have some microing skill. its seriously just a l2adapt issue.

I dont think people are upset at lack of counters to callin's. Theres always been counters.

but its the fact that currently your typical player must put in a disproportionate amount of effort in comparison to the easymode spam around for 25 minutes into callins soviet player in order to win. Thats not balanced.


The only way to equalize this effort discrepancy as axis, in a way, is a easymode no tech callin spam tank of your own(the tiger,tiger ace,elefant)

Ostheer ONLY easyPlay button is being taken away but not soviets and their 85s/guards/mortars/whatever. That is why people are pissed. Why should ostheer have to use all these different combined arms and tactics and actual strategy while soviets just CONS>GUARD>SANDBAG>85s?

because youll probably be able to beat a soviet player that does the very one sided strat and you execute your strategy properly. you actually are rewarded for playing well in this game.

su76 being having better stats than stug g is hilarious xd

it does NOT.cant you read

Agreed.

Paks chew through T34/85s, Riegel AT mines are also very nice to have against T34/85 spam too. The only place T34/85s get out of hand are in 3v3s and 4v4s where you can suddenly find yourself being attacked by 6-8 premium medium tanks without a moments notice.

Have you ever played top tier 1v1 and 2v2? In my experience, especially in 2v2, usually we end up with 4-6 85s per opponent. Now dbl that and expect 8-12(considering unit preservation) 85s rushing you with only 4 paks/couple stugs/maybe a tiger. Now watch mark target insta-wreck your tigers and stugs. Then watch as the horde of guards/85s wipe all your at-guns. With a lucky 120mm shell as well. You're gonna be in for one hell of a patch imo. Cpt. Molo will be leading the charge.


Everyone's reaction to watching 85s stream roll into their HQ every game they play:
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