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russian armor

OKW 1V1 loss

11 Jun 2015, 14:15 PM
#1
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

I've lost several in a row like this where I bleed VP's and normally feel like I'm reacting instead of forcing them to react. Strategically, what am I doing wrong?


11 Jun 2015, 14:40 PM
#2
avatar of tuvok
Benefactor 115

Posts: 786

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jun 2015, 14:15 PMGrumpy
Strategically, what am I doing wrong?

You're playing okw Keepo
15 Jun 2015, 03:42 AM
#3
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

probably not bouncing back with a punch during the small windows to breathe that you'll get. i'll be glad to have a look.
15 Jun 2015, 04:03 AM
#4
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jun 2015, 14:40 PMtuvok

You're playing okw Keepo

:foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone::foreveralone:

I wish I could help you OP:foreveralone::foreveralone: but im not having the best of luck with OKW right now either :foreveralone::foreveralone:
15 Jun 2015, 05:56 AM
#5
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

Yeah it’s tough out there right now. Allow me to apologize in advance, this is probably the quickest I've pumped out a review. I hope it hasn't compromised readability. Um, anyway!! Your main issues that I could see stemmed from two areas which are all intertwined: build, and commander.

Please don’t take this a personal criticism of character, but I didn’t get the feeling you were too comfortable with having to adapt. You stuck to a very rigid build order which was not really very well complimented with your commander, and thusly were left with a very lopsided army composition which did not perform very well, especially as the T34 hit the field. If that was a T70 or even an AAHT that game is over a lot quicker, ‘cos you were left unprepared.

Be sure to observe base splats and try and watch multiple replays of your own, (or play more Soviets) paying attention to your opponents army composition and the clock. Because of the very “flow charty” design of the Soviets, you’ll start to build a better feel of what to expect and when. This experience will allow you to tailor your army to counter it, play way more efficiently and purposefully and give you confidence. For instance, a shrek with your first 90 munitions doesn’t do you any good against T2. Once you see T3, then it’s time to panic, grab a pupchen and some shreks. You did this, but not at the correct time, making it inefficient. Instead, since you were dueling scripts and potentially shock troops, don’t hesitate to grab those G43’s or grenades as your first investments.

Likewise, your opponent also did not seem too keen to adapt either, riding shock rifle like secretariat. A well micro’d Luchs can really punish these builds as well as MG34’s and even to a degree Falls and Obers, but again you were much too rigid, the JP4, does become a good unit to have a little before the Is2’s are on the field, but I don’t personally feel like you should be trying to hold on to enough to survive and then hope to take them out when they hit the field, I would rather try to control the tempo of the game earlier, that’s just me though.

Mainly it comes down to having the right tools at your disposal, and this was evident in the dying embers of the game, and your decision to get the Schwerer. This is a choice that does you no good at this point, and you nearly lost the truck in what I’ll attribute to a mistake with your rally points up at the front lines. By now you know another Is2 or even flame tank will hit the field, it may be time to consider the Jagdtiger. I believe it could have bailed you out here, but the choice of the Schwerer, plus a float of 500+mp and replacing of Volks with Fusiliers, it really did not do you any favours at this stage of the game, you were in limbo with your army and frankly, needed a different unit composition to fight shock rifle late game: mines, pupchens, panther/jpiv/jagdtiger and I feel that sort of inexperience really showed through and hurt you tremendously during the game.

Allow me to go back to examine the early game for a moment. When you’re considering using a Kubelwagon, or any unit for that matter, you have to also tailor your tactics to get the most efficiency out of them. This issue is systemic at each stage. In this case, your offense needs to flow through your sturmpios. They need to be the center piece of your combat ambitions, using the kubel to suppress the squad(s) and then flank with the pios, classic fire and maneuver. Instead use a Volks squad to go cap podunkville out in the middle of nowhere, especially on a map like Eindhoven, since harassing squads are effectively not part of your army requiring a sundial to get back in the fight. So considering you can control the tempo of the fight in a big way by holding houses and key roads. It pays to combine your strums and kubel in more strategically beneficial areas. You’ll find yourself more in control of the game, and be in an easier situation to execute from. This is really almost always the case when you have the right units at the right time. It also requires mentioning by getting right up into the face of conscripts, you’re actually giving them a slight advantage, especially if they aren’t suppressed, 9/10 you’ll lose a member on approach and the fight will be over, and conscripts are better at close range than in a mid-range bracket. Your pios will be most effective there, compared to point blank (unless they’re in cover and your target is suppressed or it’s a direct flank since at point blank weapons negate cover)

Otherwise, tactically you were fairly sharp, managing a few wipes of your own, but your execution started to plateau after losing the second Volks squad, either through frustration, exhaustion, or just basic errors, and then I feel like you panicked when your plan fell apart and did not have any adjustments, that’s where you lost in my mind, and frankly even the squad wipes you suffered, all that will come together with experience, once you see more situations and get more familiar with how the factions handle.

In closing, I would be more careful with your use of the LeiG. It’s not a mortar, it’s best used to support your infantry, almost like a long range MG, it’s not very good at indirect fire. Also, be a little more careful with your kubel, you had a great judgement call to have it fight the first script squad that got up on it, instead of fleeing, netting you a squad wipe, but having it sit still with a damaged engine and getting popped by a marauding conscript squad maybe a minute later, was really tragic, as well as the aforementioned truck issue.

I hope my feedback hasn’t discouraged you, or been too harsh. I hope you continue to play and improve. It’ll get easier with a larger perspective.
16 Jun 2015, 00:19 AM
#6
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

Yeah it’s tough out there right now. Allow me to apologize in advance, this is probably the quickest I've pumped out a review. I hope it hasn't compromised readability. Um, anyway!! Your main issues that I could see stemmed from two areas which are all intertwined: build, and commander.

Please don’t take this a personal criticism of character, but I didn’t get the feeling you were too comfortable with having to adapt. You stuck to a very rigid build order which was not really very well complimented with your commander, and thusly were left with a very lopsided army composition which did not perform very well, especially as the T34 hit the field. If that was a T70 or even an AAHT that game is over a lot quicker, ‘cos you were left unprepared.

Be sure to observe base splats and try and watch multiple replays of your own, (or play more Soviets) paying attention to your opponents army composition and the clock. Because of the very “flow charty” design of the Soviets, you’ll start to build a better feel of what to expect and when. This experience will allow you to tailor your army to counter it, play way more efficiently and purposefully and give you confidence. For instance, a shrek with your first 90 munitions doesn’t do you any good against T2. Once you see T3, then it’s time to panic, grab a pupchen and some shreks. You did this, but not at the correct time, making it inefficient. Instead, since you were dueling scripts and potentially shock troops, don’t hesitate to grab those G43’s or grenades as your first investments.

Likewise, your opponent also did not seem too keen to adapt either, riding shock rifle like secretariat. A well micro’d Luchs can really punish these builds as well as MG34’s and even to a degree Falls and Obers, but again you were much too rigid, the JP4, does become a good unit to have a little before the Is2’s are on the field, but I don’t personally feel like you should be trying to hold on to enough to survive and then hope to take them out when they hit the field, I would rather try to control the tempo of the game earlier, that’s just me though.

Mainly it comes down to having the right tools at your disposal, and this was evident in the dying embers of the game, and your decision to get the Schwerer. This is a choice that does you no good at this point, and you nearly lost the truck in what I’ll attribute to a mistake with your rally points up at the front lines. By now you know another Is2 or even flame tank will hit the field, it may be time to consider the Jagdtiger. I believe it could have bailed you out here, but the choice of the Schwerer, plus a float of 500+mp and replacing of Volks with Fusiliers, it really did not do you any favours at this stage of the game, you were in limbo with your army and frankly, needed a different unit composition to fight shock rifle late game: mines, pupchens, panther/jpiv/jagdtiger and I feel that sort of inexperience really showed through and hurt you tremendously during the game.

Allow me to go back to examine the early game for a moment. When you’re considering using a Kubelwagon, or any unit for that matter, you have to also tailor your tactics to get the most efficiency out of them. This issue is systemic at each stage. In this case, your offense needs to flow through your sturmpios. They need to be the center piece of your combat ambitions, using the kubel to suppress the squad(s) and then flank with the pios, classic fire and maneuver. Instead use a Volks squad to go cap podunkville out in the middle of nowhere, especially on a map like Eindhoven, since harassing squads are effectively not part of your army requiring a sundial to get back in the fight. So considering you can control the tempo of the fight in a big way by holding houses and key roads. It pays to combine your strums and kubel in more strategically beneficial areas. You’ll find yourself more in control of the game, and be in an easier situation to execute from. This is really almost always the case when you have the right units at the right time. It also requires mentioning by getting right up into the face of conscripts, you’re actually giving them a slight advantage, especially if they aren’t suppressed, 9/10 you’ll lose a member on approach and the fight will be over, and conscripts are better at close range than in a mid-range bracket. Your pios will be most effective there, compared to point blank (unless they’re in cover and your target is suppressed or it’s a direct flank since at point blank weapons negate cover)

Otherwise, tactically you were fairly sharp, managing a few wipes of your own, but your execution started to plateau after losing the second Volks squad, either through frustration, exhaustion, or just basic errors, and then I feel like you panicked when your plan fell apart and did not have any adjustments, that’s where you lost in my mind, and frankly even the squad wipes you suffered, all that will come together with experience, once you see more situations and get more familiar with how the factions handle.

In closing, I would be more careful with your use of the LeiG. It’s not a mortar, it’s best used to support your infantry, almost like a long range MG, it’s not very good at indirect fire. Also, be a little more careful with your kubel, you had a great judgement call to have it fight the first script squad that got up on it, instead of fleeing, netting you a squad wipe, but having it sit still with a damaged engine and getting popped by a marauding conscript squad maybe a minute later, was really tragic, as well as the aforementioned truck issue.

I hope my feedback hasn’t discouraged you, or been too harsh. I hope you continue to play and improve. It’ll get easier with a larger perspective.


Thank you for the review, it gives me a few things to think about. I did get frustrated in this match because losing the Kubel and my first JP4 were really bad mistakes that felt like slow motion train-wrecks once they got started. I replaced the Volks with PF's because I don't like Volks vs IS2. Those battles seem to go like "miss, wait, miss, wait, squad wipe". PF's usually don't get wiped. That said, you're right, I should be watching overall composition better because I see your point.

The only reason that I wanted to put up the Schwerer was to lock down the center VP so that I could concentrate on one of the two VP's. With the fuel penalty, it isn't that often that I can get a Panther onto the field.
16 Jun 2015, 02:59 AM
#7
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jun 2015, 00:19 AMGrumpy


Thank you for the review, it gives me a few things to think about. I did get frustrated in this match because losing the Kubel and my first JP4 were really bad mistakes that felt like slow motion train-wrecks once they got started. I replaced the Volks with PF's because I don't like Volks vs IS2. Those battles seem to go like "miss, wait, miss, wait, squad wipe". PF's usually don't get wiped. That said, you're right, I should be watching overall composition better because I see your point.

The only reason that I wanted to put up the Schwerer was to lock down the center VP so that I could concentrate on one of the two VP's. With the fuel penalty, it isn't that often that I can get a Panther onto the field.


Yeah, it's debatable. I would rather the Volks just for a little bit of chipping damage against the armor instead of having nothing. I can understand wanting a little more beef against the cons. Regardless, you really gotta be careful with your trucks. The Schwerer isn't a Pak40. Unless you physically, and confidently hold the map your playing with fire... and even then, it doesn't really pay to have your HQ in an area where a creeping ZiS/IS2 can kill your 80 fuel investment, and in this specific instance I see either 2 JPiV's or the Jagdtiger being what you need. 'cos nullify those IS2's you have 5 Fusiliers, more than enough to deal with the cons.
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