*sigh* the OKW

The problems with this fraction are so on such a high ammount you're stunned that it has actually been released in the game.

I'll do a quick summary of every broken unit and instead go more indepth when responding to critizism i most likely will get.

From start to finish:

Sturmpioneers: No fraction should get the advantage of having a hardened unit with 4 assault rifles as starting unit unless all of that fractions other early game units are weak to balance it out which none of them are.

Volksgrenadiers: No problem with these except being too powerful to balance out the strength of Sturmpioneers. Too cheap aswell.

The problem lies within how OKW works and the VGs upgrades.

This one bothers me the most: 5 star veterancy capabilities, this is unrealistic, unbalanced and just flat out wrong to the point where you should be ashamed Relic.
Why would the crippled and burnt-out army of the of the late-warfare Germany having little kids and old men as soldiers get more experience and fight better than their well trained, combat experienced counterparts?


This MIGHT have worked in a fraction that supported it, OKW doesn't.
With heat-seeking panzerschrecks earning the VGs 5 stars of vet easily for just HITTING A SHOT.
Same goes for all of the units with AT-capabilities.

And these vet bonuses are a fine addition to balance aswell rofl: Vet 3: heal out of combat,
vet 5: sprinting for prolonged periods of time/forever when out of combat without penalty.

The reason vet stops at 3 for other fractions is not because they couldn't come up with more buffs to give, no it was to keep the veterancy system WITHIN CONTROL.
So that units couldnt run around with vet 10, smashing other units giving them no chance to make a come-back, which you worked SO HARD on Relic, tons of different tweeks to give people several chances to come back into a game.
You can't do that against OKW, you might possibly be able to drain them on VPs if they're around 10 or so left.
But that's pretty much it. When the OKW player has settled with his auto-healing and auto-repairing HQs aswell as the Flak-HQ which deserves it's own category on the "fix this shit!"
wall and vet 5 on all the VGs aswell as the Panther which is somehow matching up and often even winning confrontations against
IS2s while at the same time being unmatched against all other tanks in the categories: range, speed, accuracy and damage.


Then we have the VGs Panzerschreck upgrade which i've already covered a bit: This motherf***ing thing shouldn't exist! Not for VGs! You wan't to know why the Wehrmacht Panzergrenadiers,
Panzerschreck upgrade doesn't let you decide weather to get 2 or 1 of them, instead it forces you to buy 2 for 120 munitions?
IT'S TO KEEP BALANCE WITHIN THE GAME SO YOU DON'T HAVE AN ANTI-INFANTRY SQUAD THAT ALSO HAS HUGE ANTI-TANK CAPABILITIES.
It's made so people DON'T go for the upgrade every time instead forces them to actually THINK
wheather they want a strong anti-infantry unit or a strong anti-tank unit. You don't see any choices like that being made in the OKW fraction. The Sturmpioneers minesweeper upgrade even has a f***ing "put away minesweeper"
feature ffs!.

The problem is all in all, with the vet through damage done feature not working out on infantry with AT-weapons (expecially when they can get up to 5 stars of vet).
The VGs just get too strong for such a low price, we also have to keep in mind here that OKW players can trade fuel for munitions and vice versa and therefore easily obtain the panzerschreck without
a big penalty considering they can just switch at any time to trading for fuel if they get drained at some point. The trading system costs nothing to utilize and is fulfilled instantly.



Then we have the Kubelwagen... the core idea of this thing is stupid and wrong.

Oh Relic, you really tried on this one. "Guys let's do something unique and instead have a vehicle being the HMGunner and not the Classic static MG!"

Does it at least sound unique and good on paper?
...no it doesn't it sounds f***ing stupid and that's all it is.

An HMG is designed to hold down key-areas and deny access to hordes of infantry, Relics basic attempt at stopping players from blobbing, we all saw how that went when people could more than easily kill
an mg-crew because of it only being able to suppress infantry in its direct line-of-fire, leaving tons of open space for other units to flank.
Even if it had it's problems, atleast it actually WORKED. The HMGs had something called set-up and pack-up time. Meaning they had to be placed 'forehand in order to function properly and did not operate
so well without support. Making them more defensive rather than offensive units, which gave the opponent time to act and plan ambushes, having both good and bad sides like every unit should have you might think.



The Kubelwagen is the exact opposite of what an HMG is supposed to be!
An mg with the ability to suppress should NOT be mobile. It should infact, BELIVE IT OR F***ING NOT, be imobile or at least less mobile.
It should be defensive not f***ing over-the-top overly aggresive which most OKW players use the Kubel for, thanks to the extremely quick response time and ability to escape danger.
It shouldn't be able to instantly change line of fire.

And last but not f***ing least...

IT SHOULDNT REQUIRE MORE THAN 3 FULL-HEALTH SQUADS WITH AT-WEAPONS OR EVEN WORSE AN ACTUAL MILITARY SCOUT VEHICLE HAVING TO PUT A FULL CLIP OF 50.CAL ROUNDS INTO A FUCKING CIVLIAN CAR TO GO DOWN!

NO UNIT THAT CAN BE BUILT THAT EARLY SHOULD REQUIRE THE DEDICATION AND MICRO OF THE OPPOSING PLAYER AS MUCH AS THE KUBEL DOES!
AND ON TOP OF THAT, THE 2 MOST USED OKW COMMANDERS OFFER AN ACTUAL STATIC HMG FOR A LESSER COST THAN THE AVERAGE MG DESPITE FULFILLING JUST AS MUCH!
SO THE ONE BAD SIDE YOU MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SQUEEZE IN, THE FACT THAT THE KUBELS RANGE AND WIDESPREAD IS SMALLER, IS ALREADY REPLACED BY A STATIC CALL-IN HMG THAT CAN BE CALLED IN FOR JUST 1 COMMAND POINT FOR A LOW COST!


*sigh* moving on...

Raketenwerfer: No problem with this one, would however respect it more if OKW didn't already have enough AT with very early Panzerschrecks.

King Tiger: This thing i actually feel needs a buff, now it has the same armour rating as the IS2 which frankly just isn't realistic and this now just makes the
KT even worse considering it costs way more and moves alot slower than the IS2.

This is what needs to be implemented to balance it out, i don't think people were so dire to nerf it just because of its armour.
What happened was that the KTs extreme anti-infantry capabilities along with its very high damage just got out of hand.
Nearly every single infantry squad got wiped from just one shot off of this beast, meaning no enemy infantry to take care of the KTs supporting infantry,
it just made it too powerful because nothing could get rid of the support infantry that made sure the KT didn't get flanked.

Battlegroup Headquarters: Even if the retreat point isn't, you can't just give away free medics.
Even if the price is slightly more expensive than the average barracks or building, the fact that you can set it up wherever you want on friendly territory, in other words having a forward HQ aswell as being able
to reinforce units is just too much of a buff and gives the OKW player an unfair advantage if healing is also included.

Le.ig: Clever idea and not too expensive considering the very quick set-up and firing speed. Also considering the fact that all OKW units are cheap as shit it doesn't really matter how "expensive" this thing is.

Uhu: Unique, clever aswell as realistic idea that WORKS.

Jagdpanzer: Works fine i'd say, maybe a little too clumsy though, usually only works if heavily supported.


Mechanized Regiment Headquarters: Free repairs is not as game changing as free medics, considering only one vehicle can be repaired at a time.

Sdfkz 251/17: This thing has got way out of hand. The first version was indeed a little too uneffective, with both a pack-up AND set-up time,
aswell as the round always seeming to hit any type of obstacle rather than the target itself.
But now it's just too powerful, the ammount of whiped units this thing covers is insane compared to any other anti tank vehicle, apart from perhaps the T-70 that, keep in mind take longer to actually get out on the field.
The smoke effect shouldn't be free at all, i'm guessing this is an unfixed issue considering this vehicle actually needed this when it had both a set-up and pack-up time.
But when you removed the pack-up time Relic, you forgot the free smoke effect that, once again makes this unit like all other OKW units; too easy to use.
Also relic you never noticed the "attack ground" exploit that makes this thing able to set-up while moving? Which was the only thing keeping it away from being broken as shit?
No apparently you didn't, i and many others easily do this all the time, leaving no time for our opponents to react, if there ever was any to begin with. Making this thing even worse than it already is.

Sdkfz 234 "Puma": Atleast you nerfed it a little but that's still so far from the realistic side of the 234. It was a reconnaissance vehicle, not a tank destroyer.
The gun mounted on these were the same as the ones on the Panzer IIIs from around 1940-1942. These should have NO IMPACT on any tanks, medium or higher what-so-ever!
It's gun was designed to offer protection against lighter scout vehicles and ability to take out transports.
At NO point did these things match up against the modern tanks designed after 1942, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER.
In reality, about one shot from a sherman would've taken this thing out.
In COH2 it can take atleast 3...
I understand that nothing should instantly kill anything in a game because that would make it unfair and unbalanced, *cough* pak43 *cough*.
But at NO point should a Puma for example contribute or ulltimately even kill an IS2, no matter where it fires.

The point of the Puma shouldn't be assisting in killing an ISU-152, it should be: reconnaissence,
taking down harrasing scout cars aswell as heavier halftracks and last but not least, keeping enemy light-tanks such as the Stuart and T-70 at bay with its immense range.

Stuka zu Fuss: This thing shouldnt have the accuracy it does, yet another OKW unit that whipes everything it touches. Every and i mean EVERY other artillery piece in this game has a barrage radius that it fires within,
it will shoot in that area but it doesn,t guarentee that it will hit the exact unit you want. This balances out howitzers and mortars so that they CANNOT easily wipe hundreds of units.
The OKW version is once again the exact opposite of what that unit type is supposed to be. Not only is it also highly mobile which begs the question why they would make it MORE powerful than other artillery
pieces instead of less which would balance it out. The barrage shoots six rockets that impacts on a straight formation one after the other. You can adjust this formation and get the projectiles PRECISELY where you want them.
It shouldn't be like this, the Zu Fuss in coh1 had the same functions as all the other artillery pieces, it had a firing area where it would shoot its projectiles. It worked perfectly, you could actually NOT have a guarenteed wipe, CAN YOU IMAGINE!?

Before moving on i will give this thing kudos due to the extreme cost that actually balances it out to an extent, at least you managed to get that right Relic... gj.


Schwerer Panzer Headquarters: ... i don't think i even need to say anything about this one.

Obersoldaten: Works better now when they're more expensive and actually require some sort of sacrifice from OKW rather than just; panzerschreck, panzerschreck, panzerschreck, MG-42-mount, panzerschreck, panzerschreck.

Panzer II Luchs: Works perfectly, is balanced that's why few OKW players use it.

Pzkpfw V Panther: This thing is riddiculously powerful. I've said this before, it outmatches every medium tank no matter how many there are since it cannot be outflanked due to its speed.
It also sees and shoots longer than any allied vehicle apart from perhaps tank destroyers.
I've also seen way too many Panthers winning 1v1 confrontations against IS2s.
Because of the allied tanks being so expensive this thing shouldn't be allowed to cost only 175 fuel, are you seriously implying that one and a half shermans, jackssons,
whatever could ever take this thing down?

Sturmtiger: This thing actually, believe it or not needs a BUFF. YES, BUFF! CAN YOU IMAGINE, AN OKW UNIT THAT NEEDS A BUFF! WOW!
This things range needs a serious buff and since the projectile is obviously too fast to dodge, you could make the sound of the Sturmtiger alot higher, around the level of the noice from the Zu Fuss projectiles.
So that people can keep track of it through the F.O.V and be punished if they don't.

You don't see anyone using this thing ever, apart from when people are just having fun and messing about.
Either remove it or fix it.


And i believe that is all, if i ever feel like it i may go through the doctrines because dear god are some of them broken.

I agree. Raketenwerfer is a great thing. Volks dont need shreks. Raketen cuts it.

Will USF get its own thread as well?

The problems with this fraction

And immediately stopped reading.

Will USF get its own thread as well?

I personally like the fraction, it's the only one that can't win through just fortifying and sitting the match out, they need to be constantly on the move, having no stupid "Elite" units that are easy as hell to manage. No they require constant micro because of not being able to stay up top with the elite units in the late game.

I've heard people talk about how they are powerful, perhaps TOO powerful in the early game.
But, if you think about it, that's all they have, their early game.

Their tanks are weak and expensive, their units strength quickly vanishes as opposing soldiers veterancy increases.

They NEED that early game suppremacy to be able to develop any kind of control.
I'd say their late-game is too weak. Their tanks are too expensive and slow in comparison to axis tanks to be able to withstand the late-game push-back that the axis most likely will bring.

This takes me back to a match i played as Wehrmacht.
I picked the idiotic "Elite Troops" doctrine.

Got my ass kicked the whole game through, but because i was able to maintain only 1 VP out of 3, i managed to survive long enough to call in my Tiger Ace BS, i was literally getting crushed in my base and then it came.

Killed every unit, every tank, every riflesquad.
Everything died.

In the end, i won...

What was he supposed to do?
He couldn't flood me with tanks, they're were too expensive and slow.
He couldn't use his infantry, they're not strong enough in the late game and the allies AT-weapons are shit.

How did i deserve that?
How was that fair in any way?

I even said to myself, well gj relic.


It shouldn't be like this, if the WINNER of the game even thinks that the he doesn't deserve it, you're doing something wrong.


But yes, there are still some things i'd like to go through with the US, with every fraction actually.

However it will take time, i don't just sit down and type this. It requires analysis and dedication, but if people are actually interested in my opinion, i probably will go over everything in every fraction.

Wow If you put as much effort into improving your play as you did into making this novel of pure nonsense you wouldn't even think OKW is as OP as you say it is!!

Because they are really far from OP. Matter of fact they're the weakest by far!!

I can't believe you did this. The longest post I've ever read and it was literally so pointless.

Quick summary... Unbelievable!



Edit: I had to check the date and scrub my eyes to make sure this wasn't from last patch and was just necro'd. You're seriously.....

OKW need some anti building other than walking stuka, Raketenwerfer and Le.ig could take 5 min firing at a build, and it still have a third of its HP, also Le.ig and Raketenwerfer they both got decrewed by 1 shot from any tank which is so BS.

Obers is over nerf now, without upgrade it is just a gren (a 400MP gren sucks bad). so I can't throw it into battle once it hits the field, it need wait at base for 30 sec for upgrade or longer if i don't have munition for it. they should just increase the MP to 480 or 500 and give back their LMG or reduce its price to 320MP and require upgrade. right now i am using fur. and falls instead of obers.

Walking stuka is so easy to dodge it is only effective against buildings and stationary stuff, it take like 10 sec to land which even HMG can pack up and ran away. it is very predictable and easy to dodge compare to rockets barrage of SU and Osteers.

P2 no one use it not because it is balanced, it is because it is pure AI unit. even a T70 can eat it alive, and they both have about same AI ability, I think P2 should able to stand against T70.

Sdfkz 251/17 need use very carefully, I see many many OKW rush their Sdfkz 251/17 into battle and got killed when they run into enemy infantry when they are moving. once I play as US and vs OKW in a winter map, 3 sq of infantry with no upgrades at all, a Sdfkz 251/17 run into my group and got blocked, and got destroyed before even start deploying. also Zis can almost 1 shot it, US can just smoke it, it will run, if it didn't run bazooka attack ground or move close or in the smoke and close quarter combat the Sdfkz 251/17, it will die very fast. and it is pretty much the only anti blobbing unit OKW have in early game.

Schwerer Panzer need heavy support to stay alive, unsupported Schwerer Panzer means no panther for him.

Kubelwagen it is ok right now, because any two sq of infantry to force it off. it is only powerful with team up with strumpios,

I could say flame M5 is even more broken than anything in the game, follow by PTRS spam, then there is US armor pop cheat, 120mm etc, many thing in this game is broken need be addressed. oh M20 is borken too, call in a M20 let crew jump out and let a RE hop in, you got a M20 and a early AT infantry unit that can take out/scare away puma, P2, and Sdfkz 251/17.

Edit: so after type all this i feel pretty dumb because this thread is very pointless cry baby's post who prob never played OKW. why should i bother spend time read and type this. shame on me.

ehh

Wall of text gets a 1/10 (I gave you 1 point for the effort required to make up such nonsense and the time to type it up).

People still having problems with the panther after the Jackson buff?

However it will take time, i don't just sit down and type this. It requires analysis and dedication, but if people are actually interested in my opinion, i probably will go over everything in every fraction.

Show us your playercard and we maybe take you serious.

I love ignorant people whining, German only left having children and old men fighting in 1944, maybe they mistaken it as the last week in Battle of Berlin.

1944 was the peak year of Nazi Germany industrial production.

I rather wonder why OKW have no Me262 support, considered as the first operational, successful Jet fighter/bomber, doing rampage in spite of total Allies air superiority.

WoW....i mean, yeah just wow.

Theres not much left to Nerf on the OKW. i think its best to delete the fraction, so u can win a few game too

Faction. It's "faction".

nice job with the wall of text but 1/10

Crippled and burnt out German army
Puma not able to penetrate IS 2 or Sherman

Read some books, man.

if you have trouble using a Puma then you suck because you only need to use it at max range with good micro.

This thread is epic. People never cease to surprise me.

Volksgrenadier =/= Vokssturm* (see below)
Vet 5 was nerfed a while ago.
Lack of choice regarding munitions is an issue not a strength.
OKW have a machine gun, the kubelwagen is early game area denial/pio synergy... tool, not a blob counter, and something that is countered by strafing...
KT is a good blueprint for teching.
The only issue with the battlegrouppe, and mechreg for that matter is the headquarters working out of connection to hq.
uhu is way too damned expensive.
JPiV, is godly, but can be awkward to fit into builds, especially if you want to play around with diversity.
oh come on the AAHT as well?? the soft counter is literally more of the units it's supposed to hard counter.
the puma was a tank hunter, with a 5 cm KwK 39 that was more effective than you think.
*** regardless, historical designation shouldn't be factored into game balance. free smoke should certainly be a vet ability. as well, the puma certainly should be assiting destroying ISU's as a flanking force.
stuka is debatable... it gives a lot of control but a lot of soft counter equity... if that's a thing... also, a little like the JPiV, it's place in army composition precludes it from ever being an issue except in team games.
problem with panthers? try atg's or jacksons, or both.

enjoy your day!

well, in such cases... i suggest you play OKW yourself

really, just spam games in 1v1 and 2v2.

abuse everything you described --> should be easy to get top100 that way

It's the best cure you can imagine...