Tiger and IS2

I wonder what balance out the same cost of this 2 units, because the is2 have statistically overall the edge over the vanilla tiger with more HP, Armor, and firepower. Usally I never play the tiger and always prefer the panther even the weaker AI capability, but I was quite surprised when I saw the statistics.

Are the differences so minimal that it does not matter, but even if, they have the same cost.
Please correct me if I oversee something rather important.

Source > coh2 stats

They're both fine.

IS2 isnt fine. Its OP.

Tiger: better ROF / DPS, less scatter (better Vet1 IMO)
IS2: better Armor, more AoE, more pen (noticeable close), tiny bit faster

HP is the same, so is damage.
Keep in mind though that several Tiger docs got tank smoke, which pushes the useability again.

So the Tiger is basically your all around DPS dealer that needs support and slowly crawls, the IS2 has more solo staying power and RNG wipes.

The armor difference isn't minimal, especially if you consider what both may face in the current meta.
Edit: the units themself are fine IMO, it's really more about the current meta.

If it comes down to tiger vs IS2 the IS2 will win unless flanked due to better penetration and armor.

If each have a pak or Zis supporting them it depends on the situation. If its a standoff (all units face to face) the IS2+Zis will win due to the IS2s better armor which will bounce every shot from the pak and often the tiger as well.

If the tiger and pak are firing from different angles the pak+tiger will win due to 1. Faster ROF and 2. more accurate tiger which will easily wipe the Zis.

Mind you all these situations are hugely dependent on RNG but these are the most likely cases.

The heavy armor of heavy tanks make them very frustrating to fight because the can so easily bounce AT guns and in some cases wipe them in return.

I was playing a game the other day where I had 4 AT guns (2 paks 2 stolen Zis) and my team mate and i were against 2 Soviets who both got IS2s and they would walk up to the wall of AT guns, kill a few then retreat with next to no damage taken. My tiger couldn't chase them because they were too fast.

Panthers are the only real threat to the IS2s imo because they can actually chase them down.

several Tiger docs got tank smoke

Several? Or one? Spearhead...

due to the IS2s better armor which will bounce every shot from the pak and often the tiger as well.

Every shot from pak, sure. Pak has better pen at range than tiger, but that have no influence on bouncing. Guys please. If you write something you are unsure, check it first.

IS-2 will beat Tiger 1v1, but they aren't supposed to fight each other 1v1.

ZiS+IS-2 and Tiger+Pak have exactly the same TTK to kill each other, so in combined arms perspective they are equal to each other.

IS-2 is better vs armor, Tiger murders all infantry.
Tiger doctrines present much more choice and customization on the playstyle and support, IS-2 is always a single BO.

On the army vs army level, they both are equal to each other in performance.

Also, this thread:

I really do feel like IS2 is better vs Infantry.

Well, you (and inevitably alex) are the only ones then. Cruzzi explains the difference in AI nicely, ask him around on streams.

is2 vs tiger, pure rng shit

Several? Or one? Spearhead...

& Elite Troops
Excuse my brain at 2:20 in the morning.



Anyways, Katitof sums it up nicely...

IS2 one shot my base. Plz nerf.

IS-2 will beat Tiger 1v1, but they aren't supposed to fight each other 1v1.

ZiS+IS-2 and Tiger+Pak have exactly the same TTK to kill each other, so in combined arms perspective they are equal to each other.

IS-2 is better vs armor, Tiger murders all infantry.
Tiger doctrines present much more choice and customization on the playstyle and support, IS-2 is always a single BO.

On the army vs army level, they both are equal to each other in performance.

Also, this thread:

The expected "Damage Control"-Post.

The expected "Damage Control"-Post.

Expected "below 10 posts troll reply".

Feel free to prove me wrong.
You know how to upload replays I presume.

Playing as a German against an IS2 is a torture.
The annoying thing is that the IS2 wipes PaKs in 1 shot about 75% of the time.
Soviet wiping potential is bigger overall. You can get 3 PaKs to defeat an IS2 and all three will be wiped by a single katyusha barrage.

The expected "Damage Control"-Post.

Couldn´t have said it better. Everything Russian is fine, even when the faction is totally over-performing.

The biggest problem with IS-2s is the OKW lack of a reliable and affordable anti tank solution in the form of a real AT-gun. Yes, you can get the Raketenwerfer, which is affordable but only comes with 50 range and thus isn´t reliable. Or you get the Jagdpanzer IV which is reliable but you can´t afford more than one. Lose it and you lost the game.

The Panzerschreck + Raketenwerfer combo mixed with one or two vehicles here and there for OKW

is way worse than

Pak walls + fuel caches + lots of medium and heavy tanks for Ostheer.

And even Ostheer (with the better AT) has troubles dealing with the IS-2. OKW is just fucked.

I think tigers are fine. You can deal with them just fine with AT guns and non-doctrinal tank hunters. You can also do well against them with flanking non doctrinal medium armor.

I think IS-2s need a nerf to their armor. They can absorb too much AT gun/JP4 fire from the front and they are a lot less vulnerable to flanking axis medium armor than the tiger is to allied medium armor. The Panther is the only non-doctrinal unit that can successfully deal with the IS-2, which gives the axis a lot less options and battlefield flexibility than the allies.

*This post is only about the performance of these 2 units. On a whole-army basis I think both tanks are OP as neither requires any investment in tech*

Playing as a German against an IS2 is a torture.
The annoying thing is that the IS2 wipes PaKs in 1 shot about 75% of the time.
Soviet wiping potential is bigger overall. You can get 3 PaKs to defeat an IS2 and all three will be wiped by a single katyusha barrage.

Then don't put the PaKs so close to each other.. Use teller mines, they will always use the is2 to barge right through your center point, unless you play versus a really good player. The soviet curse will fall upon 90% of all players, frontal assaults all the way. Usually they come from not more than two routes. Teller mine the shit out of those routes, spread out your paks and have some pios sitting on the front line, spotting anything, sacrificing themselves.

The IS2 will always focus on the infantry first, so the pios will be targeted first, giving your 3 paks one shot, target weakpoint with that, and the thing is as good as dead. If it hits a teller mine, its as good as dead. Have a p4 or a panther there, the thing is dead. Tiger is not worth it, spend the fuel on something else.