Mortar Carriage

no it's fine. Its useless in 1v1 since shermans are pretty much 100% the better choice, and it is the m8 scott is the only good USF counter to mass axis blobs where shermans have the survivability of an ostheer sniper in the middle of a rifle blob.


Also if you lose to double USF you need to l2p

u said that the scott comes around the same time as p4, there is no way a usf player could have a jacskon also

either he got he Jackson b4 his scott ( which in that case ur p4 could easily kill it)

or he got the scott first (in which ur p4 could kill that too)

make up ur mind, either the usf player is resource hacking and getting more tanks than he should?

or ur making shit up to mask ur failure to counter a vehicle that dies to anything that looks at it.

l2p

Youre obsessing with the build orders and unit speeds, that aint what im complaining about. even in late game if theres 2 tigers 3 jacksons and a scott on the field... it shouldn't be able to 1 shot all infantry.

(In this case he had 3 AT guns, captian, 4 rifle squads 1 jackson and 1 scot when the 1 shotting all my infantry happend)....

P4 aint gonna do much vs that,

But the scenario is irrelevent... any decent player is gonna support the scott, which is fine, but not when its covered in AT and is then able to 1 shot your infantry.


Like these guys said its mainly the blobing thats the issue (where all 4 men of a squad clump together), but since thats the case it needs a scatter nerf. Similar stuff happens with the Stug E, but that doesnt have a turret or as much range...



If Brummbars had the same range of a Scott and were 1 shotting 6 man squads all over the place, and my defense was "you should have a jackson by the time they have a Brummbar l2p" that wouldn't mean the Brummbar with 70 range is balanced would it?

Use your fkin head.

no it's fine. Its useless in 1v1 since shermans are pretty much 100% the better choice, and it is the m8 scott is the only good USF counter to mass axis blobs where shermans have the survivability of an ostheer sniper in the middle of a rifle blob.


Also if you lose to double USF you need to l2p

Yeah was double USF.... thats how he was killing my paks with 120mm mortars? AS i stated in one of the first posts...

l2read

Youre obsessing with the build orders and unit speeds, that aint what im complaining about. even in late game if theres 2 tigers 3 jacksons and a scott on the field... it shouldn't be able to 1 shot all infantry.

(In this case he had 3 AT guns, captian, 4 rifle squads 1 jackson and 1 scot when the 1 shotting all my infantry happend)....

P4 aint gonna do much vs that,

But the scenario is irrelevent... any decent player is gonna support the scott, which is fine, but not when its covered in AT and is then able to 1 shot your infantry.


Like these guys said its mainly the blobing thats the issue (where all 4 men of a squad clump together), but since thats the case it needs a scatter nerf. Similar stuff happens with the Stug E, but that doesnt have a turret or as much range...



If Brummbars had the same range of a Scott and were 1 shotting 6 man squads all over the place, and my defense was "you should have a jackson by the time they have a Brummbar l2p" that wouldn't mean the Brummbar with 70 range is balanced would it?

Use your fkin head.





Yeah was double USF.... thats how he was killing my paks with 120mm mortars? AS i stated in one of the first posts...

l2read

I wasn't reffering to you specifically. And despite your claims, the M8 scott doesn't oneshot nearly as often as you claim it to. It does oneshot sometimes, but it's not very often for it oneshot.

And by the way, the M8 scott has 60 range, same as a PaK 40.


And yes a brumbaar with 70 range oneshotting squads would be overpowered, considering that it only costs 2 times as much as one m8 scott, has over four times the armor, and over three times health. And faces significantly weaker AT as well. Not to mention that the brumbaar IS also quite effective againts tanks due to it having decent penetration (enough to pen most USF vehicles fairly reliably except E8/Dozer, while also having a stun chance of 33%! for every shot it lands.

Oh, and by the way, it's radius of kill AOE is 1.35, just 0.05 more than a regural sherman HE round. So really it's just a sherman with 60 range with no anti tank capabilities. So i guess you want people to make more shermans


You just got unlucky.


Oh and for your information, a brumbaar has a kill radius of 1.975 meters.


EDIT : M8 scott has 0.025 more AOE than HE sherman rounds.

Why are you acting like the Scott shoots sturmtiger shells? You got your squads wiped one game and you make a thread?

It doesn't wipe nearly as often as it used to, it's already been quad nerfed...
and you can barely get good wipey results unless you build more than one, which means you're stupidly vulnerable to panthers,Pumas,jagdpanzers, even A moved AT guns because your AT will be quite squiffy with just Scott's.

Literally just move your jadgpanzer or Panther up front near your infantry and hit the Scott's every time they fire.
Or kill the paper USF tanks before they hit critical mass.
Or buy a jags tiger and nullify all Scott's and USF armor if we're talking 2v2+

I wasn't reffering to you specifically. And despite your claims, the M8 scott doesn't oneshot nearly as often as you claim it to. It does oneshot sometimes, but it's not very often for it oneshot.

And by the way, the M8 scott has 60 range, same as a PaK 40.


And yes a brumbaar with 70 range oneshotting squads would be overpowered, considering that it only costs 2 times as much as one m8 scott, has over four times the armor, and over three times health. And faces significantly weaker AT as well. Not to mention that the brumbaar IS also quite effective againts tanks due to it having decent penetration (enough to pen most USF vehicles fairly reliably except E8/Dozer, while also having a stun chance of 33%! for every shot it lands.

Oh, and by the way, it's radius of kill AOE is 1.35, just 0.05 more than a regural sherman HE round. So really it's just a sherman with 60 range with no anti tank capabilities. So i guess you want people to make more shermans


You just got unlucky.


Oh and for your information, a brumbaar has a kill radius of 1.975 meters.


EDIT : M8 scott has 0.025 more AOE than HE sherman rounds.

More shermans would be fine.

Why are you acting like the Scott shoots sturmtiger shells? You got your squads wiped one game and you make a thread?

It doesn't wipe nearly as often as it used to, it's already been quad nerfed...
and you can barely get good wipey results unless you build more than one, which means you're stupidly vulnerable to panthers,Pumas,jagdpanzers, even A moved AT guns because your AT will be quite squiffy with just Scott's.

Literally just move your jadgpanzer or Panther up front near your infantry and hit the Scott's every time they fire.
Or kill the paper USF tanks before they hit critical mass.
Or buy a jags tiger and nullify all Scott's and USF armor if we're talking 2v2+

Id love to but was playing OStheer

Panther is at the end of a long tech tree. But i agree that would be fine.

And ive played far more than 1 game where ive had Scotts 1 shot squads way too oftem... Like someone else said it is a covertuning issue, But that makes some units like this and the Stug E overperform... Only reason this thread doesnt involve the stug E is because its doctrinal, has less range and fights 5-6 man squads not 4, so wipes are less common.

Scot is the most difficult little bugga to micro. The carriage is not OP at all, Paks and TDs can easily take care of it. I suggest not using AT infantry to take it out.

Id love to but was playing OStheer

Panther is at the end of a long tech tree. But i agree that would be fine.

And ive played far more than 1 game where ive had Scotts 1 shot squads way too oftem... Like someone else said it is a covertuning issue, But that makes some units like this and the Stug E overperform... Only reason this thread doesnt involve the stug E is because its doctrinal, has less range and fights 5-6 man squads not 4, so wipes are less common.

pak will make him micro even harder, and mobile defense Puma and bosstruppen with command tank for rifle blobz>>>> Scott and bar spam everytime

Why blame the already nerfed to hell motor carriage instead of making a thread on cover bunching?

pak will make him micro even harder, and mobile defense Puma and bosstruppen with command tank for rifle blobz>>>> Scott and bar spam everytime

Why blame the already nerfed to hell motor carriage instead of making a thread on cover bunching?

Same reason people make threads about the StugE and 120mm....


Cover bunching isnt gonna get fixed any time soon, units that overperform with it should be brought into line until thats fixed.


And Paks wernt working...

Its pretty easy to come out with the obvious strat/counter, people even tried it with the Vanilla tiger ace... but in practice there are lots of other factors...

Same reason people make threads about the StugE and 120mm....


Cover bunching isnt gonna get fixed any time soon, units that overperform with it should be brought into line until thats fixed.


And Paks wernt working...

Its pretty easy to come out with the obvious strat/counter, people even tried it with the Vanilla tiger ace... but in practice there are lots of other factors...

So nerf all explosives into the ground so that when the cover bunch fix comes we have useless explosives?

(which literally takes one click of a button in mod tools btw)

Are you seriously comparing countering the scott to the old tiger ace.... \ / im done here

yea...

the scott is one of the hardest units to micro in this game. imo it falls in the category of the okw aa HT. no matter how hard u micro. it will die eventually.

let me be frank. the set up idea is horrible, ur increasing the micro for the most micro-intensive faction already.

the scott is incredibly easy to kill, so I don't understand why u label it as "low risk"

u either got unlucky or outplayed, simple as that, no balance issue here

(the main problem with this unit is cover-bunching, which leads to most of the wipes. This answer is given with the unit + game in their current state)


Queenwretched, Your posts in this thread have been unpleasant to read, certainly for me and quite likely for OP and other forum members. Nevertheless, I will write some replies to your comments.



It is a long range auto-firing unit, the most you will ever have to do is move it a bit forward or a bit backward. That is not micro.

Riflemen require micro, the m8 and other light vehicles require micro, shermans (pushing infantry, smoke, flanking) and jacksons require micro. This unit does not. Just reverse when in danger. this is NOT micro.


The problem with this unit is it can only be effectively flanked by a tank. Infantry units would get off one shot before it is reversed out of range all the while firing at the infantry and probably wiping them.

"imo it falls in the category of the okw aa HT. no matter how hard u micro. it will die eventually."
If you lose a unit no matter how hard you micro, then your micro is not very good or your macro has failed to prevent a flank.

Relying on Paks or Raketens is ineffective for three reasons:
1) it can wipe both within a few shots while you're getting close.
2) it generally has supporting infantry tht will wipe your AT
3) it can run away from AT quickly.

If you had said "it is hard to keep it alive because it dies in two shots like the OKW AA halftrack" I could have agreed with you. But you didn't. In any case it doesn't have to get in anywhere near as close range as the AA HT. Feel free to check the numbers on that and please do so in future before comparing a long-range indirect fire unit to a short range direct fire unit.

People that say the m8 scott doesn't require micro have completely zero clue what they are saying.


Yes it does require micro, and alot more than the sherman considering it has to constantly kite shreck blobs because it does miss quite oftne. It does to 2 PaK shots, and pak-43 oneshots it.

It has the same range as the pak-40, and for that reason i fail to see why you should move the pak-40 close to the scott.

Like seriously, proper AT gun micro counters this thing very well.

Anyone who says otherwise has no idea what the fuck they are talking about. And people need to stop blabbing this bullshit of it oneshotting squads. It has the same AOE as the M4 sherman HE rounds.

It is a long range auto-firing unit, the most you will ever have to do is move it a bit forward or a bit backward. That is not micro.

People that say the m8 scott doesn't require micro have completely zero clue what they are saying.

Like seriously, proper AT gun micro counters this thing very well.

Anyone who says otherwise has no idea what the fuck they are talking about. And people need to stop blabbing this bullshit of it oneshotting squads. It has the same AOE as the M4 sherman HE rounds.

I don't mind it. The Stug E does pretty much the same, but via direct fire. The scott is for me personally not a problem. usually I have a panzer 4 around by that time, I just declare hunting season to be opened.

I am pretty new to the game, but there are in my opinion many things that have great squad wipe potential. The reason why is, again to my believes, because the squads bunch up so much. They usually walk through each other.
No matter what fires at it with some kind of good damage role against infantry, it will do serious damage no matter what. Panzer 4 wipes infantry pretty well, so does german mortar if you get it vetted, let alone rifle grenades from the grenadiers, I love those.

Again I am in your eyes probably a nooby, but I think the squad mechanics need rework, not certain units. That will bring more useless units to the game, a lot of factions have useless units. Don't make squads bunch up so much. And if I would be made able to make a design choice, I would give german grenadier squads a 5th man. But that is my choice..

Squeaky

Wow, really? You're gonna quote Burts to disprove what I was saying? Find me a less biased and more skilled player and quote them. And they have to disagree with what I said. Not with something similar to what I said.


Seriously, Burts... And his posts was full of "fuck" and "shit". Quote Katitof too next time, show me how wrong I am.

My points:

With current squad-bunching it is spoiling the game. Perhaps if just this was changed it would become a balanced unit. I do not believe the Scott makes the US OP. it's just an un-fun unit to face.

The Scott is not micro-intensive.

It auto-fires from long range and is armoured.

It can outrun flanking infantry.

It can outrun and out-shoot AT guns.

Flanking with a tank is extremely risky vs a faction with non-doc tank-disabling mines.


See if you can find several good players who disagree with these points. If you can find someone who can express his ideas without expletives, that'd be great.

Why can't we just spread out the 4 man squads more??? Fixes so many RNG AOE related problems.

Why can't we just spread out the 4 man squads more??? Fixes so many RNG AOE related problems.

No, no, no, no, ALL THE SQUADS.

I'm tired of something that blows up one-shotting by my stuff on legs the moment I look away no matter what faction I play. Obviously, it's far less as Soviets, but it's still dumb.

how can an allied unit actually kill something? this is outrageous!