Allies (Mainly USF) TD spam.

At even a semi-decent level of micro a PIV will rarely even get a shot in vs a Jackson, which has a 20 (!) range advantage and obviously you don't lead with a Jackson.
Provided your opponent is decent and backstops his PIV with Paks/Grens, you won't easily kill it either, but all the PIV will do is feed vet to the Jackson until it gets HVAP where it still does 240 damage on top of increased penetration, and then OH will have s serious problem keeping anything short of Tiger/Elefant alive.

At even a semi-decent level of micro a PIV will rarely even get a shot in vs a Jackson, which has a 20 (!) range advantage and obviously you don't lead with a Jackson.
Provided your opponent is decent and backstops his PIV with Paks/Grens, you won't easily kill it either, but all the PIV will do is feed vet to the Jackson until it gets HVAP where it still does 240 damage on top of increased penetration, and then OH will have s serious problem keeping anything short of Tiger/Elefant alive.

Sorry man, but this is simply not true. Like i said , ostheer does not actually need any tanks vs USF. The tanks just make it easier , or in some cases harder , for them to win versus USF.

The jackson does have the range advantage, but all it takes is 3 pak shots to take it down. 2 pak shots + PIV blitz will reliably take any jackson down. Of course, the backbone of your ostheer army should never be PIVs. In the end, PIVs only serve as a support role to chase down tanks and scare away infantry. Pak-40s and LMG grens do the job.


The only major problem with the PIV againts USF is rifle company flamer spam, which in that case going for a PIV is indeed a bad choice. I guess vs armor company the panzer IV isint too great either.


In the end going for any tank is viable againts USF as long as you have decent map control and he hasn't completely overwhelmed you in the early game, which of course is quite easy to do as USF. The reason for this is because tanks for ostheer againts USF are support units, not the backbone.


Now of course, going for a brumbaar or a panther in 1v1 is still usually a fairly crap choice, because the tech costs end up slowing you down significantly.

Wat? The Jackson is not an offensive unit. I mean, I am not gonna pretend I never lost one to a Pak (wall) or anything, but thats mostly miscmicro etc. Why would you run a Jackson into a Pak position? Let his armour expose himself (which he will have to do eventually given how the US vs OH meta tends to play out), put in your shots, collect, your vet. Eventually, you get insane burst damage.
As for CAS, with its recent proliferation of CAS I got to play against it alot, and its friggin annoying alright and necessitates a much more careful approach for the USF player, but I think foregoing armour completely weakens the doctrine in the lategame. Might work on some maps where you can camp a central location, on others, where you need to harass in the periphery, not so much, simply because you will bleed manpower hard against US armour if you have no mobility of your own and you will run the risk of getting your squads wiped left right and center against good Sherman/Bulldozer/Scott play. Not to mention that you can still easily lose the game late if your Paks get taken out as your army composition is still fragile without armour, and that can easily happen simply to RNG, ie. 240 mm, WP plus charge, Priest, what have you, or simply being caught out of position by US inf.
Addendum, outside of CAS, the Tiger does just about everything the PIV does better and more cost efficiently in the long run, especially if you throw in the StuG-E...

Wat? The Jackson is not an offensive unit. I mean, I am not gonna pretend I never lost one to a Pak (wall) or anything, but thats mostly miscmicro etc. Why would you run a Jackson into a Pak position? Let his armour expose himself (which he will have to do eventually given how the US vs OH meta tends to play out), put in your shots, collect, your vet. Eventually, you get insane burst damage.
As for CAS, with its recent proliferation of CAS I got to play against it alot, and its friggin annoying alright and necessitates a much more careful approach for the USF player, but I think foregoing armour completely weakens the doctrine in the lategame. Might work on some maps where you can camp a central location, on others, where you need to harass in the periphery, not so much, simply because you will bleed manpower hard against US armour if you have no mobility of your own and you will run the risk of getting your squads wiped left right and center against good Sherman/Bulldozer/Scott play. Not to mention that you can still easily lose the game late if your Paks get taken out as your army composition is still fragile without armour, and that can easily happen simply to RNG, ie. 240 mm, WP plus charge, Priest, what have you, or simply being caught out of position by US inf.
Addendum, outside of CAS, the Tiger does just about everything the PIV does better and more cost efficiently in the long run, especially if you throw in the StuG-E...

I'm just speaking from experience here honestly. If you play againts a good ostheer player that spams CAS LMGs and PaKs well, it becomes an uphill battle for USF on most maps...

It's true that if you lose tanks to pak-40s it is usually due to some kind of mis micro. But it's extremelly easy to mess up since all it takes is one grenadier faust and your sherman evaporates pretty much instantly to the pak-40s. And then again, losing a pak-40 to a sherman or whatever also is usually due to mis micro... And dont even try flanking with infantry, the pin strafe is just going to own you...

And of course the tiger does everything better than the PIV + stug E, that's why its the meta

So do I, but I think USF is still (slightly) stronger regardless of map, CAS just radically changes the dynamics of the infantry engagements from the late earlygame (3cps) onwards, and gimps the impact of US light vehicle play, and this is hard to adapt to. US all out of a sudden needs to engage far more conservatively, stall, and play for the lategame/attrition, which is what ordinarily OH would do...

Well, its certainly more micro intensive then farting out smoke and reversing on blitz.

one of them costs 10 munitions, the others cost 30+30= 60. Big difference

Also, one of them is a snare and the other is a get away plan. Smoke won't help you if you hit a mine. Best counter to flanking panthers IMO.

one of them costs 10 munitions, the others cost 30+30= 60. Big difference

Also, one of them is a snare and the other is a get away plan. Smoke won't help you if you hit a mine. Best counter to flanking panthers IMO.

No tank is safe after hitting a mine, smoke still gets the tank out of trouble from 1 last hit.

No tank is safe after hitting a mine, smoke still gets the tank out of trouble from 1 last hit.

I agree. Smoke is great but not OP.

I found (double)Panzer grenadiers with shrecks are extremely useful against USF Tank destroyers, or just regular Shermans. But then, they can't go alone, they need intensive support as we all know Pgrens are extremely fragile.

Been almost a year since I used a tiger, as probably it's the worst unit in game. LOL, so no I'm not using tigers to counter TDs. A PIV costs the same but is much better, better AI, faster reload and mobile. Anyhow, as OST I have no problem against USF vehicles since most of the time i go for double PAKs, and sometimes even 3. Once they get within range, they won't make it out.

As the developers said they are going to fix the "frustrating" issues, the allies "effective in numbers" concept is a broken issue that should be the number 1 priority on their list IMO.

Been almost a year since I used a tiger, as probably it's the worst unit in game. LOL, so no I'm not using tigers to counter TDs.

LeL are you countering Jacksons with a Tiger? You do realize Jacksons are hard counter right? And, Tiger is the worst unit in the game? L2p.

You really need to upload a replay before making such a lame thread.

Yo, replay from top players. @ 50 Minute mark.

LeL are you countering Jacksons with a Tiger?

Lol, don't put words in my mouth, otherwise I will have to put a nasty thing in your mouth.

In super scrub mode I used to spam TD's. Now its all about TD's and Scotts or Priests to handle the inevitable infantry squads I cant rifle down because I'm a scrub player. Make sense?

................

Lol, don't put words in my mouth, otherwise I will have to put a nasty thing in your mouth.

I think you and I both know where this trolling is heading, don't we? Will you ever learn from your mistakes?

I think you and I both know where this trolling is heading, don't we?

I know, the kuhler. He changed the content of my post and refereed to name calling.

I know, the kuhler. He changed the content of my post and refereed to name calling.

I did not name call but I will now, n00b.