No tech demo just poor design.

As I said, minesweepers help make them a little harder to get to, but do nothing against a player who sets multiple demoes or the actual squad wiping performance of one. I would like to again propose a 1-3 second delay before it explodes and perhaps a cost decrease to 75 munitions.
Perhaps as well, but not necessary, an audio cue when a demo is triggered, that is very quiet that can only heard when hovering over it. Idk just throwing shit out there. Because assault engineer demo abuse is pretty annoying, despite assault engineers not being the best unit.

all good ideas. but keeps its price at 90

Okay. Let's assume, for a minute, that we strike demos from the game right this second. Poof, gone.

Now, what position are the Soviets left in; how will they counter a massive infantry push? We must also take into consideration that fact that some players might purposefully avoid #noskillMaxpins, #noskillGuards, and #noskillSnipoorz.

How are the Soviets going to defend territory when they can't bunker down like Zhe Germanz can?

What about blob counters? The Maxim is...well, I can't say its super awesome since it has exactly 0 area suppression (exaggerated). Flamethrowers? Engies are 4-man Cons, which means they die in the blink of an eye. Backtech to Penals? Okay, I guess; still not mind-blowing effectiveness there.

...SU-76?

Yes yes, 'Demos are irritating to fight against'. Whelp, they're also fairly important, I think, in a faction that has little in the way of holding ground. No bunkers, no massive minefields, and sandbags that are themselves constructed of paper mache. Demos are your 0 pop territory defenders, in the same vein as 0 pop MG bunkers.

Look, I don't have a super awesome suggestion to fix all this, but wiping demos of the face of the earth isn't how to make everything sunshine and rainbows. To do that, we'd need faction Overhauls, and Mama Relic won't let that happen.

Okay. Let's assume, for a minute, that we strike demos from the game right this second. Poof, gone.

Now, what position are the Soviets left in; how will they counter a massive infantry push? We must also take into consideration that fact that some players might purposefully avoid #noskillMaxpins, #noskillGuards, and #noskillSnipoorz.

How are the Soviets going to defend territory when they can't bunker down like Zhe Germanz can?

What about blob counters? The Maxim is...well, I can't say its super awesome since it has exactly 0 area suppression (exaggerated). Flamethrowers? Engies are 4-man Cons, which means they die in the blink of an eye. Backtech to Penals? Okay, I guess; still not mind-blowing effectiveness there.

...SU-76?

Yes yes, 'Demos are irritating to fight against'. Whelp, they're also fairly important, I think, in a faction that has little in the way of holding ground. No bunkers, no massive minefields, and sandbags that are themselves constructed of paper mache. Demos are your 0 pop territory defenders, in the same vein as 0 pop MG bunkers.

Look, I don't have a super awesome suggestion to fix all this, but wiping demos of the face of the earth isn't how to make everything sunshine and rainbows. To do that, we'd need faction Overhauls, and Mama Relic won't let that happen.

We'd need other changes. I don't see why we'd need faction overhauls.

"it has exactly 0 area suppression (exaggerated)"
Why say it has exactly 0 area suppression if you know it doesn't and correct yourself afterwards? Emotional language betrays a lack of assurance in one's belief.




Axis are currently having a hard time hunkering down and holding ground actually. Bunkers can be knocked out in a few hits and MGs are not very effective at suppressing on yellow cover, which is everywhere. artillery spam (incendiary/phosph,etc) make holding a position extremely difficult. And most importantly - holdign a position is no way to win a war.




I guess what it would come down to is this: Since the main reason people are defending demo is it is a blob counter, would you support demo being added to the axis side to handle all the rifle and con blobs?


Personally I'd just see it removed from the game. I don't see any need for manual demo on any kind of structure. It means that after 4 minutes axis forces cannot garrison a house without risking losing a full squad.

Volsky, take a look at what the higher level players are saying (remove demo for the most part) and ask yourself if your argument can really match up to theirs.

Remove demo, buff Maxim AoE suppression, problem solved, everyone wins?

Remove demo, buff Maxim AoE suppression, problem solved, everyone wins?

RELEASE THE MAXIMS!

Okay. Let's assume, for a minute, that we strike demos from the game right this second. Poof, gone.

Now, what position are the Soviets left in; how will they counter a massive infantry push? We must also take into consideration that fact that some players might purposefully avoid #noskillMaxpins, #noskillGuards, and #noskillSnipoorz.

How are the Soviets going to defend territory when they can't bunker down like Zhe Germanz can?

What about blob counters? The Maxim is...well, I can't say its super awesome since it has exactly 0 area suppression (exaggerated). Flamethrowers? Engies are 4-man Cons, which means they die in the blink of an eye. Backtech to Penals? Okay, I guess; still not mind-blowing effectiveness there.

...SU-76?

Yes yes, 'Demos are irritating to fight against'. Whelp, they're also fairly important, I think, in a faction that has little in the way of holding ground. No bunkers, no massive minefields, and sandbags that are themselves constructed of paper mache. Demos are your 0 pop territory defenders, in the same vein as 0 pop MG bunkers.

Look, I don't have a super awesome suggestion to fix all this, but wiping demos of the face of the earth isn't how to make everything sunshine and rainbows. To do that, we'd need faction Overhauls, and Mama Relic won't let that happen.

+1

Demo spam is a symptom, Muni Float is the cause. The SU needs a muni penalty.

Demo spam is a symptom, Muni Float is the cause. The SU needs a muni penalty.

LOL

Seriously now you're embarrassing yourself.

Demo spam is a symptom, Muni Float is the cause. The SU needs a muni penalty.

Demo charges need to be very expensive. I think you would agree with 350 munitions

Demos are unfair and retarded, end of story.

You surely know how to recognize retarded i will give you that

I basically dont mind demos,its just when you encounter people who ONLY spam demos and mines.
Demos have their right to be here but they are "too" cheap for their performance.As previously said,some SOV doctrines and BOs require some to no munitions at all to fight effectively.

I basically dont mind demos,its just when you encounter people who ONLY spam demos and mines.
Demos have their right to be here but they are "too" cheap for their performance.As previously said,some SOV doctrines and BOs require some to no munitions at all to fight effectively.

A lot of Soviet players would love to have some abilities to use munis on. Like an assault package for scrips,a DP, for gardens sake even a flamethrower.

But STOP blobbing. If you spread out a bit, spamming demos ain't cost effective

A lot of Soviet players would love to have some abilities to use munis on. Like an assault package for scrips,a DP, for gardens sake even a flamethrower.

But STOP blobbing. If you spread out a bit, spamming demos ain't cost effective

This is extremely untrue, wiping out 1 squad at a time with demo's is very cost effective. 90 munitions to kill a vetted gren with an LMG42? Or an Ober squad with a 60 muni LMG34? An excellent trade.

The reason demo's are kinda bullshit is they punish players who spread out just as much as idiots who blob.

Yea me too.

I dont blob at all,just to let you know .I am not sure how familiar you are with the game but i am not talking about vanilla units(vet 0),i mean vetted squads who are capping during the heat of battle and then get blown up.
Sir,would you call that outplayed ?
Btw another issue is okws sweepers only have 5 range,which means if you sweep an area you may overlook one.Its like you are a farmer seeding his plants and have to go over every inch of land just to be sure to not a have sneaky mine or demo in your territory.

Exactly ALex.

This is extremely untrue, wiping out 1 squad at a time with demo's is very cost effective. 90 munitions to kill a vetted gren with an LMG42? Or an Ober squad with a 60 muni LMG34? An excellent trade.

The reason demo's are kinda bullshit is they punish players who spread out just as much as idiots who blob.

Oh come on, a squad wipes happen. But unless you blob up you wont be that punished. The demos weren't an issue until OKW came along and took blobbing to a new level

Yea me too.

I dont blob at all,just to let you know .I am not sure how familiar you are with the game but i am not talking about vanilla units(vet 0),i mean vetted squads who are capping during the heat of battle and then get blown up.
Sir,would you call that outplayed ?
Btw another issue is okws sweepers only have 5 range,which means if you sweep an area you may overlook one.Its like you are a farmer seeding his plants and have to go over every inch of land just to be sure to not a have sneaky mine or demo in your territory.

Exactly ALex.

Mines do squad wipes, OH and OKW mines too. Rifle grenades wipe squads. You lose a squad or two in any game. But if you don't blob up too much spamming demos ain't gonna be an issue.

As I told Alex this is mostly an issue OKW blobbers face. Also OKW Strums are the only engies who can toggle their sweepers thus not losing any combat efficency.

First of all,reveal and show me your playercard.
OKW rarely do,OH has signs with a skull on it to remind you to no walk into.
Riflenades can be avoided by playing well.
The cases you are mentioning are just because of bad decision making and/or lack of skill.
To sum up,all of your arguements are redundant.


I dont blob and its still sometimes an issue for me.

I'd rather dont have that ability and instead get a bigger radius.

Here's just some of my ideas (I know they're bad Kappa) :
-Make a "Demo upgrade" (cost 60-90 ammo) to Engineer squads, so after that they can go to base and get a demo charge for 90 ammo, while they're carrying the demo it would be visible to other players and one of the models would lose their rifle until the demo is planted. (This kinda thing would allow the demos to be planted while hidden and make it easier to other players to know that there's demos around)

-Bind the engineer squad that planted the demo to the actual explosive, so if the squad that planted the demo died, the demo would be there, but couldn't be detonated remotely. And the engineer squad should be close to the demo to be able to detonate it, or there could be a prepare demo stance (or something like that) for the engineer squad. This means that the engineer squad would be immobile and have a detonator on the ground, this again would allow the opponent to be aware of the demo being close by.

So yeah, there's some bad ideas that came to my mind, the main idea for these would be to allow the opponents to know that there might be demos around, and this could cause people to use more recon before attacking. plox no hate Kappa

Oh come on, a squad wipes happen. But unless you blob up you wont be that punished. The demos weren't an issue until OKW came along and took blobbing to a new level

Extactly true ^^^ not to mention Wehrmacht mines have a potential for squad wipes for muni as well.