No tech demo just poor design.

So what if you have to spend mp on a unit to counter another? thats kind of how RTS's go. Thats like whining about loosing to Roaches in SCII when all you did was spam marines.

Here is the scope of which you are missing:

Soviet player spends resources on tech structure with little scaling (notice how snipers are literally the only unit out of this structure that has meaningful impact passed the 12 minute mark) and then buys a taxi for early wipes that cost fuel as well as manpower. Just like a kubel, an M3 is an early investment and if it does not manage to do anything meaning full they have literally been a waste. Kubels are esssentially dead after the 6 minute mark when other counters are about the map. Its the same principle, an M3 helps gain an early advantage that has to do work, other wise all it did was put the Soviet player behind.

With that in mind, Why is it such a huge deal to build a well scaling AT gun in the begining? its not like it will be utterly useless after the M3 dies unlike the M3 and the Kubel.

Of course you need infantry, but after the Kubel is delt with the game will be pretty even and even gain you a lead because the fuel put into the M3 will make it harder for them to counter an early Flack halftrack or luchs (I mean, its not like Soviets have Panzershrecks to push away armor)

You're not getting it. Try facing it 3/4 games.


When you have a Puepp you lack the inf you need.

The M3 can shut down or take out your Kubel very fast

It can flank all your defensive units.

It can chase down and wipe retreating squads with 3-4 men.

It's one of the most fun-killing units.

There is no need for a unit with armour and speed and the ability to carry units in the early game.


I'd rather see guards at T1 than that thing. But you'll never know why it's a problem 'cos you don't play against it. In any case you should stop saying it's all ok and post a replay of you proving it.


"With that in mind, Why is it such a huge deal to build a well scaling AT gun in the begining? its not like it will be utterly useless after the M3 dies unlike the M3 and the Kubel."

I already explained!!! it leaves you with a weaker army for a long time. That puepp is reducing MP all the time it is on the field too. It isn't needed for another 15 minutes after that. THAT's why it's a big deal.

The scope of what you are missing is immense. Play some axis then see how you feel.

Mother Russia defender Katitof lol

Someone finally quotes one of Alex's many contradictions to his own statements, Hero of Soviet Union.

Except reworking the Jackson and making other USF AT more capable isn't removing something, there is no contradiction there. A more apt comparison would be asking for the removal of the Jackson.

Except reworking the Jackson and making other USF AT more capable isn't removing something, there is no contradiction there. A more apt comparison would be asking for the removal of the Jackson.

The idea for every nerf or removal there needs to be a buff is insane and stupid and has no bearing on Relic's history at all. We have seen a constant nerf to OKW's early game since WFA release and see no buffs or changes at all to help it.

keep trying it man!!!


lol, it is not only that you don´t know what you´re talking about, it is that you don´t even know what you have said in the past....


you were talking about nerf or removal, not only removal xDDD.


keep trying it man!!!

keep trying it man!!!


lol, it is not only that you don´t know what you´re talking about, it is that you don´t even know what you have said in the past....


you were talking about nerf or removal, not only removal xDDD.


keep trying it man!!!

Key word being "for every", removing or changing the demo makes sense as Soviets are not lacking at all in the squad wipe department. Artillery, Katyushas, and Shocks still all exist. USF however has very little in the AT department other than the Jackson and nerfing it would make things very hard for USF.

Taking a statement out of context just makes you look retarded, unless you want to challenge the fact that Soviets are not lacking for blob counters.

I'll never the TAB's obsession with me, nor will I ever get the whole "gotcha" culture that exists around this forum were people will bring in out of context statements to try and drive home an insult aimed at a poster that has nothing to do with the topic at hand in an attempt to derail the thread.

Excessive flame post invised.

Please discuss the topic, not the poster.

I like how bulgakov is telling everyone to L2P to people that play this game alot better than him


If you are struggling with M3s, get a raketenwerfer, or plant mines. Don't overextend and it's very easy to kill an M3 if he overextends.

can we just have Demos as a LATE GAME ability? Having 1-2 squads wiped in the early or mid game for 90 munition makes a comeback next to impossible.

I like how bulgakov is telling everyone to L2P to people that play this game alot better than him


If you are struggling with M3s, get a raketenwerfer, or plant mines. Don't overextend and it's very easy to kill an M3 if he overextends.

I didn't tell anyone to L2p. I haven't even suggested it. I think you're so used to seeing it and saying it that you see it where it isn't there. L2Read


Easy to kill an M3... no Burts. No.

It will eat up your MP, your Micro and your micro and leave you weak in other areas. So yeah, you'll get it eventually but by then you're on the back foot.

^l2p

^l2p

^ widely disliked troll.

^ widely disliked troll.

everybody loves me

Demo locked behind the minesweeper upgrade sounds like a good idea, it does nothing but limit the ability lay them to specific engineer units, which means the enemy will know that once spotting such an engineer they can expect demo charges, if not their mines being swept clean.

everybody loves me

Moron being moron.

Demo locked behind the minesweeper upgrade sounds like a good idea, it does nothing but limit the ability lay them to specific engineer units, which means the enemy will know that once spotting such an engineer they can expect demo charges, if not their mines being swept clean.

+1

You could bluff your opponent into getting a minesweeper or at the very least force ost into defensive playstyle. Not to mention that it would delay lmg or medics..

Someone finally quotes one of Alex's many contradictions to his own statements, Hero of Soviet Union.

There is no contradiction.

"The idea for every nerf or removal there needs to be a buff is insane and stupid and has no bearing on Relic's history at all."

In other words "There is no inherent reason that, without exception, nerfs/removals should be accompanied by buffs."

"Nobody is asking for the Jackson to be put back to it's old state, I would be very very happy to see it just get 160 damage and have the USF AT gun get a large buff and the zook get a large buff. USF needs more diverse AT."

In other words "It is my opinion that this specific situation of USF AT options warrants a buff to accompany a nerf."

Those two statements don't contradict eachother.

Am I wrong? I don't know Alex's history on the forums (it's probably not relevant to the present conversation), but it seems, to me at least, that a lot of people tend to go out of their way to discount him on false pretenses (judging by his post count, I've been on forums enough that I think I understand why some may feel like that). Now if he quotes a stat or something that is completely off then sure, tell him he's wrong, but he isn't really doing that right now, and he isn't contradicting himself.

Nerfs don't have to be accompanied by buffs or vice versa. It is done that way sometimes, keyword "some" which is different than "every". Maybe I'm wrong and Alex is just always wrong because reasons, but it seems nonconstructive to call him, or any other member for that reason, out on stuff when he isn't even guilty of what you call him out on.

That said, I personally don't think that demos necessarily need removing, but they should be changed significantly as others have mentioned: teching prerequisites, 3 second detonation timer, only allowed to be placed on buildings, cover, bridges, and ice, sniper stealth instead of mine stealth, complete removal, or something else that brings it away from the frustrating state it is currently in.

Demos are unfair and retarded, end of story.

As I said, minesweepers help make them a little harder to get to, but do nothing against a player who sets multiple demoes or the actual squad wiping performance of one. I would like to again propose a 1-3 second delay before it explodes and perhaps a cost decrease to 75 munitions.
Perhaps as well, but not necessary, an audio cue when a demo is triggered, that is very quiet that can only heard when hovering over it. Idk just throwing shit out there. Because assault engineer demo abuse is pretty annoying, despite assault engineers not being the best unit.