The OKW conundrum

The overall design for OKW is off. Do you all remember OKW being marketed as a high risk/high reward faction? You can't have that in a strategy game, you just can't.

I hate dealing with mine spam as OKW. Sturms are so expensive and squishy having them spearhead pushes to find mines is not very cost efficient, but you don't have much choice if there is a mine on every key point.

Volks are so bad against inf. Obers take forever to outshoot guards now (and might not even do that) and are exposed to the heavy mortar and the squad wipe city that is the Soviets in the late game. Obers definitely don't fill the anti infantry gap that they used to and it is showing.

I think they should just redesign the faction and be done with it since right now OKW is annoying 1v1 L33t pros by being UP or people in team games by being OP.

I don´t like the lottery 2vs2 random has become (even more). With OKW + Ostheer Axis are decent. Get double Ostheer and especially double OKW and your chances fade. Especially with no fuel caches in team games double OKW is crippled.

From strongest to weakest:

Soviet + Soviet
OKW + Ostheer
Soviet + USF
Ostheer + Ostheer
USF + USF
OKW + OKW

From strongest to weakest:

Soviet + Soviet
OKW + Ostheer
Soviet + USF
Ostheer + Ostheer
USF + USF
OKW + OKW

double usf is weakest

I don´t like the lottery 2vs2 random has become (even more). With OKW + Ostheer Axis are decent. Get double Ostheer and especially double OKW and your chances fade. Especially with no fuel caches in team games double OKW is crippled.

From strongest to weakest:

Soviet + Soviet
OKW + Ostheer
Soviet + USF
Ostheer + Ostheer
USF + USF
OKW + OKW

What?


I'm sorry but that's completey wrong


sov/sov > ost/ost = sov/usf > ost/okw > okw/okw > usf/usf


Double OKW is bad, double ostheer is quite good

The overall design for OKW is off. Do you all remember OKW being marketed as a high risk/high reward faction? You can't have that in a strategy game, you just can't.

Going to get hate for this because it's DoW II, but Eldar in Dow II are fairly high risk, high reward, and considering the parallels between the two games OKW could feasibly be this. Relic just done goofed.

I think they should just redesign the faction and be done with it since right now OKW is annoying 1v1 L33t pros by being UP or people in team games by being OP.

Pretty much, borderline OP last patch and now they scrabble around the map in 1v1 spamming Panzerfusiliers.

No idea why Panzerfusies have 6 men.

Going to get hate for this because it's DoW II, but Eldar in Dow II are fairly high risk, high reward, and considering the parallels between the two games OKW could feasibly be this. Relic just done goofed.


Pretty much, borderline OP last patch and now they scrabble around the map in 1v1 spamming Panzerfusiliers.

It certainly is hard to balance though since life uh, finds a way. Players will always find the path of least resistance and downplay risks and maximize rewards.

So to balance out the rewards possible for the faction that on paper is supposed to have some rewards other factions don't have we end up with this smudgy, strange faction we have now that has too many risks.

Or the problems of the previous patches where rewards were too great. I still remember trying to deal with vet 5 volks and Obers that killed 2 models with one burst. I don't want to go back to that.

I never played much DoW2 but maybe the balance is possible. Isn't that another Relic game where everyone plays a community mod now since they were not getting the balance they wanted?

buff MG34 MVGame

No idea why Panzerfusies have 6 men.

Maybe because they won't get one-shotted

No idea why obers were overnerfed. No idea why basic infantry has the best AT. No idea why the sweeper range is short. No idea why Jagdpanzer can cloack.

OKW is weird, man.

Balance wise I have no problem with 6 man Panzerfusies. It's just weird to see 6 man elite infantry for late-war Germany.

OKW is weird, man.

Balance wise I have no problem with 6 man Panzerfusies. It's just weird to see 6 man elite infantry for late-war Germany.

Their problem is the vet5 + G-43s...they suddenly transform into unkillable killing machines, I swear they own upgraded rifles big time.

Maybe because they won't get one-shotted

No idea why obers were overnerfed. No idea why basic infantry has the best AT. No idea why the sweeper range is short. No idea why Jagdpanzer can cloack.

See though, there's a good reason to say why not.

The part where their unit is described as "light infantry", a term generally applied to a higher quality/lower availability unit to that of more standard infantrymen. That being said, I think the term was more of an honorific applied to a specific regiment than an distinct tactical unit, but nonetheless they would be troops that, in the grand scheme of things, are rather rare, unlike the Volksgrenadiers they outnumber.

But yeah, I have no issue with their actual in-game effectiveness...and it's nice not getting one-shot. Please fix that matter, Relic.

Panzersusies combined with Obers...sure gives me the goosebumps.

OKW is weird, man.

Balance wise I have no problem with 6 man Panzerfusies. It's just weird to see 6 man elite infantry for late-war Germany.

It makes them stand out. Adds to the units unique design. They already look alike Volks. This way, they are the only 6 man squad of OKW. It also adds flavor to the doctrine that way, if you will.

Besides, being locked in only 1 out of 6 doctrines in itself makes them more seldom - thus, we do history justice. I see no need to change their squad number.

http://www.coh2.org/replay/35550/okw-lategame-is-shit

well there are two things really hard to OKW to counter USF priest or ISU, priest is too buff as a mobile art. it can take a full barrage of like 2 rocket hits to still have half health and able to stand around 4 shots from panther, so OKW have no counter to it at all, another problem is OKW's at gun is 1 shot to death by ISU, the crew is too pack together, in fact i see it got 1 shot by all ally tank except M10, M8, SU85.

alot ally player cry about walking stuka is strongest mobile art in game, but really it is priest the strongest, its instant damage wasnt high as walking stuka but it is hard to dodge and it can consistently fire, and have the HP to stand any indirect fire from germans.

I'd agree that OKW isn't really a well designed faction. In the early game the main problem is the kubelwagon. When it is buffed and doing its job (being a fast, agile, suppression platform that doesn't suffer attrition) then it is OP. When it is nerfed and it is not doing its job then OKW doesn't have reliable suppression and can't hang with cons/rifles. The nature of the unit prevents there from being a happy medium.

In the later game, their reliance on super armor is equally dumb. In longer game modes where they have easy access to their late game armor they utterly dominate. In shorter modes they struggle to survive the gap caused by their lack of accessible mediums.

I think that relic really painted themselves into a corner with this faction. As for fixes--maybe turning the kubel into a version of the old motorcycle which can cap but not suppress, give them the mg 34 in t1 and replace the KT with PIV ausf J but allow it to be built after any two trucks are set up. (And add KT to elite armor so there's a reason to pick that doc.) I'm not sure that that would work, but it might.

I feel like fussiliers would be fine as 5 men, same dps. Just smaller squad size. Aesthetically 6 men only work as ostruppen.

How are people still fimding shreks a problem balance wise? The true fix would be to add in am anti-tank team and change volks up a little.

This

I'd agree that OKW isn't really a well designed faction. In the early game the main problem is the kubelwagon. When it is buffed and doing its job (being a fast, agile, suppression platform that doesn't suffer attrition) then it is OP. When it is nerfed and it is not doing its job then OKW doesn't have reliable suppression and can't hang with cons/rifles. The nature of the unit prevents there from being a happy medium.

In the later game, their reliance on super armor is equally dumb. In longer game modes where they have easy access to their late game armor they utterly dominate. In shorter modes they struggle to survive the gap caused by their lack of accessible mediums.

I think that relic really painted themselves into a corner with this faction. As for fixes--maybe turning the kubel into a version of the old motorcycle which can cap but not suppress, give them the mg 34 in t1 and replace the KT with PIV ausf J but allow it to be built after any two trucks are set up. (And add KT to elite armor so there's a reason to pick that doc.) I'm not sure that that would work, but it might.

Kubel is extremely important for OKW early game unless you want the only strat to be spam volks. A well micro'd kubel is difficult to deal with, but basically relegates the OKW to one part of the map WITH a squad (usually storm pios) to support it. Its extremely prone to flanking and units in cover. Every push against it results in it either reversing or being destroyed, breaking its suppression. Later game you have AT guns, PTRS, 120mm, halftracks, m20s, rifle smoke, AT nades, and automatic weapons fire to deal with. The kubel gives OKW the advantage in specific engagements in early game that they generally would've lost, but you don't have to fight it. Cap passed it and bait a squad in while also sending in 1 squad for a flank forces it to run or die leaving the infantry it was supporting vulnerable.