Stug E and Target Weak Point

its pretty common knowledge at this point that the Stug E over preforms by quite a margin after the cover rework. I would like to suggest its anti infantry capabilities can go relatively un-touched but the major source of OP comes from its veterancy.

Target weak point gained at vet one can be used in both a defensive and offensive nature. The time it arrives it gives the Ostheer player huge anti infantry gains as well as soft anti tank. When it becomes Vet one it gains huge utility with its stun rounds. Up until this point the Stug E while powerful is still pretty counter-able.

At vet one it can escape using target weak point on other light vehicles that are used to counter it. The Stug E can also secure armor kills with the vet ability. USF relies on light vehicles to stay on top in the mid game, Soviets do not as much so it is less of an issue there. However all armor suffers from this light howi assault gun being able to stun tanks. It is very frustrating to kill as USF because even if you manage to get in close or catch it, the stun round will lock the Sherman down while the Stug E attempts to escape and more AT is brought up. If you are lucky enough, it can also stun heavier armored vehicles so that even they are left in a dicey situation.

So my point is that a small howitzer is stunning tanks and participating in fights it should not be able to with large consequences making the Stug E not only super cost effective against infantry but also utility against tanks.

I suggest that its vet ability be replaced with smokes. The only commander with the Stug E does not have access so there would be no overlap. Relic recently has shown if there is enough banter against something they are willing to change a vet ability (with the sniper sprint) So it is possible this change could happen

Here are some common target weak point chances:

pen value of Stug E is 60, penetration of target weak point = 2*60 = 120

T34/76
Front : 120/150 = 80%
Rear : 100%

T34/85
Front : 120/160 = 75%
Rear : 100%

IS-2
Front : 120/375 = 32%
Rear : 120/200 = 60%

Regular Sherman
Front : 120/160 = 75%
Rear : 100%

Easy 8
Front : 120/215 55%
Rear : 100%

anything lighter always gets stunned. As you can see target weak point is only a gamble from the front on the heaviest of tanks. Clearly the TWP is a prevalent ability through out the course of the game

Give it secure territory. It's so good all the soviet tanks have it. SO GOOD.


Salty moment aside, yeah, it's a little silly. TWP is already the best ability in the game, it hardly needs to come on the best early AI platform going.

Not so sure about smoke. It's not a bad idea, but smoke is everywhere and for a vehicle that is usually going to be countered by zooks and AT guns the survivability it offers can be pretty huge.

No idea what else it could have. Maybe an ability to fire an alternate shell? The standard was HE but it did come with Canister and Smoke. Being able to lay a smoke screen seems a bit more micro rewarding than than the old Axis standard of one click suddenly tank is in a mist cloud. Sort of like how USF smoke works but with a shell involved.

Just give it the ability to barrage a vet 1 like the Sturmpanzer IV.

Maybe an option to increase its line of sight (for some seconds) equal to the Vet 1 skill of the soviet AT Gun?
Would be OpieOP in combination with German AT guns I guess

Maybe renaming it to stug-o will work

Is the E the tiger doctrine one? Or the stock one?

Anyway I don't often see TWP get used, but when it does get used it murders me dead. Think you're about to close the gap and circle-kill an unsupported Stug? Think again buddy, you just got stunned and oh my god there was a shrek around the corner and oh shit my tank is dead.

I would rather see TWP get weaker, but the stock T3 Stug get better overall to partially compensate. When playing USF, especially in team games, my stuff is already so damned fragile. A long range vehicle stun is a questionable design decision, to say the least.

I think it's actually a balance problem in waiting - the current meta doesn't have people using the stock one because T3 is so uncompetitive (except loltigerace). If they take steps to address the call-in meta, we'll see it show up after T3 becomes more attractive.

Is the E the tiger doctrine one? Or the stock one?

Mechanized Assault's one.

lol this thread, Stugie TWP even failed to work on a T34/76.

just give it smoke that drops for 30 muni like everything else. Target weak point is sily

yeah, it sort of betrays the role of the vehicle, but i mean, i feel like the odds of it actually penning make it fair.

i would be averse to something like heat rds, because a. ammo types don't seem to be implemented all that well, and b. it's primary role as a assault gun/infantry support.

a barrage would be nice for the situations when support teams are out slugging yours and you need to breakthrough. counter battery ... or i know, cloak! :3

tracking would really complement ATGs, defensively probably to the point of abuse. infantry awareness like the SC?? ehhhh not loving that either.

hollow charge could be an ok compromise to give it a little AT capability, if it's deemed necessary.

Lets put it this way: If StuG-E had any other vet ability than TWP it would be actually even more OP, and its pretty funny that people actually complain about the very aspect of it that is weakest...
Using TWP on StuG-E is questionable due to its lousy penetration, not to mention that the StuG-E is so fragile that using it with its setup time in actual armoured combat presents a huge risk.

Lets put it this way: If StuG-E had any other vet ability than TWP it would be actually even more OP, and its pretty funny that people actually complain about the very aspect of it that is weakest...
Using TWP on StuG-E is questionable due to its lousy penetration, not to mention that the StuG-E is so fragile that using it with its setup time in actual armoured combat presents a huge risk.

I disagree. Giving it smokes would be a solely defensive ability which can be countered by attack ground regardless of if its infantry based or vehicle based. TWP allows you to do both roles and in the hands of skilled individuals can secure tank kills.Not only that, Smokes you can drive around and still kill the Stug E, while TWP stun allows the StugE to drive off into potential reinforcements while the other vehicle cannot pursue.

Using it with its set up time is no different then trying to use its main gun, I dont see how even the short delay puts it at more risk than it already is. Not only that, but smarter players dont just throw Stug E's at their opposing players tanks just to get a stun round. its usually a sneaky flank shot stunning a tank which was focused on trying to kill something else.

My only problem with TWP for Stug E is that the tank does not have a more fitting ability that makes sense, given the tanks AI role.

60% to pen a T34/76 at max range.

Use it at your own risk.

its pretty common knowledge at this point that the Stug E over preforms by quite a margin after the cover rework. I would like to suggest its anti infantry capabilities can go relatively un-touched but the major source of OP comes from its veterancy.

Target weak point gained at vet one can be used in both a defensive and offensive nature. The time it arrives it gives the Ostheer player huge anti infantry gains as well as soft anti tank. When it becomes Vet one it gains huge utility with its stun rounds. Up until this point the Stug E while powerful is still pretty counter-able.

At vet one it can escape using target weak point on other light vehicles that are used to counter it. The Stug E can also secure armor kills with the vet ability. USF relies on light vehicles to stay on top in the mid game, Soviets do not as much so it is less of an issue there. However all armor suffers from this light howi assault gun being able to stun tanks. It is very frustrating to kill as USF because even if you manage to get in close or catch it, the stun round will lock the Sherman down while the Stug E attempts to escape and more AT is brought up. If you are lucky enough, it can also stun heavier armored vehicles so that even they are left in a dicey situation.

So my point is that a small howitzer is stunning tanks and participating in fights it should not be able to with large consequences making the Stug E not only super cost effective against infantry but also utility against tanks.

I suggest that its vet ability be replaced with smokes. The only commander with the Stug E does not have access so there would be no overlap. Relic recently has shown if there is enough banter against something they are willing to change a vet ability (with the sniper sprint) So it is possible this change could happen

I would much rather having smoke/panzer tactition at Stug E instead of TWP, it makes it more durable, specially since how bad is the Stug E's possibility of penetration against medium/heavies

Give it secure territory. It's so good all the soviet tanks have it. SO GOOD.

I would actually like to see that on StuG-E. It shreds infantry and later in the game you can abuse the hell out of secure territory with it.

yeah, it sort of betrays the role of the vehicle, but i mean, i feel like the odds of it actually penning make it fair.

i would be averse to something like heat rds, because a. ammo types don't seem to be implemented all that well, and b. it's primary role as a assault gun/infantry support.

a barrage would be nice for the situations when support teams are out slugging yours and you need to breakthrough. counter battery ... or i know, cloak! :3

tracking would really complement ATGs, defensively probably to the point of abuse. infantry awareness like the SC?? ehhhh not loving that either.

hollow charge could be an ok compromise to give it a little AT capability, if it's deemed necessary.

IMO barrage makes it OP (it's even borderline OP now), and it should not have AT capabilities if you ask me, aside from countering light armor which it does at the current state. It come with a commander which has Tigers, all you need for AT is a PAK40.

I disagree. Giving it smokes would be a solely defensive ability which can be countered by attack ground regardless of if its infantry based or vehicle based. TWP allows you to do both roles and in the hands of skilled individuals can secure tank kills.Not only that, Smokes you can drive around and still kill the Stug E, while TWP stun allows the StugE to drive off into potential reinforcements while the other vehicle cannot pursue.

Using it with its set up time is no different then trying to use its main gun, I dont see how even the short delay puts it at more risk than it already is. Not only that, but smarter players dont just throw Stug E's at their opposing players tanks just to get a stun round. its usually a sneaky flank shot stunning a tank which was focused on trying to kill something else.

Then a lot of people will bitch about it running away with 0 hp, or "Attack Ground is very useless and isn't accurate" (which is kinda true).

-------

I think StuG E is almost fine, aside from it's main gun which acts like a Heavy Bolter at vet3. The reason it wipes left and right is infantry spacing. Infantry spacing+ROF at vet3 = sniping 2 models every 3 seconds. So if the infantry spacing is fixed (which is an improvement for all 4 factions), StuG-E will be a mediocre AI tank.

Show Spoiler

Tanks aint a great counter to Stug E, usually because Werh will easily have paks backing it.

Its much better to counter with ATGs, which force the Stug right back. Lack of turret makes it extra weak Vs ATGS.

It's coming at 5 CP atm right? I think moving it to 6CP would be better because it would be postponed for about a minute or two.

It's coming at 5 CP atm right? I think moving it to 6CP would be better because it would be postponed for about a minute or two.

It comes at 6.