It is OK to have tank with invisibility in this game?

So because you didn't hear about any jp4 complaints nerfing it is out of the question? The thing disappears mid-fight at vet 1.

No, because you refuse to use the appropriate counters (double zis guns in your case) you demand a nerf where all other players learnt how to deal with this unit. It had always it's cloak ability just like the luchs.
Which decreases it's speed and doesn't work on close range, so drive a medium tank nearby, position some zis guns and force it by this out of cloak - go for the rear armour with your medium while exposing it to zis guns, taking it easily down like this.

Guys like you also complain that a KT gets destroyed when he charges tank destroyers with 60 range onwards.

So after the KT has been nerfed and the panther has been indirectly nerfed people try to make "forgotten" units more viable and suddenly 1 YEAR AFTER wfa got released people complain that the JP4 is op and needs a nerf, because it's actually doing its job, destroying vehicles.

If the JP4 was op or its vet 1 ability it was also already one year ago and nobody complained, why the sudden change? We're in the mood to make another OKW OP thread just for the gold old memories?

Way to overreact. I guess if there was an allied unit doing the same like NDA NDA, you wouldn't be complaining right?
I'm not sure but i think OKW cloak (JLI&Falls) works differently than OH one. I think that OKW units can cloak while on retreat if they go through cover while it's not the same for OH using the doctrinal ability.

Anyway, Damage bonus is fine (it's vet5 after all), problem is the mechanic of cloaking (doing so midcombat or inmediatly after shooting).
It's not OP/Broken, rather than it's just needs rework like many other things in the game.

No, because you refuse to use the appropriate counters (double zis guns in your case) you demand a nerf where all other players learnt how to deal with this unit. It had always it's cloak ability just like the luchs.
Which decreases it's speed and doesn't work on close range, so drive a medium tank nearby, position some zis guns and force it by this out of cloak - go for the rear armour with your medium while exposing it to zis guns, taking it easily down like this.

Guys like you also complain that a KT gets destroyed when he charges tank destroyers with 60 range onwards.

Awful lot of manpower, fuel, and micro to take it down in the way you describe. Seems unfair.

Just keep making stuff up to keep this tank with alien cloaking technology. Guys like you can't win with anything else.

Way to overreact. I guess if there was an allied unit doing the same like NDA NDA, you wouldn't be complaining right?
I'm not sure but i think OKW cloak (JLI&Falls) works differently than OH one. I think that OKW units can cloak while on retreat if they go through cover while it's not the same for OH using the doctrinal ability.

Anyway, Damage bonus is fine (it's vet5 after all), problem is the mechanic of cloaking (doing so midcombat or inmediatly after shooting).
It's not OP/Broken, rather than it's just needs rework like many other things in the game.

OP wants to remove the ability completely, instead of removing this one, why not making the other abilities of the units in game better all together? Soviets e.g. are in dire need of having better vet abilities. I'm just against suggestions that make the game more monotonous and reduce possible strategies.

OP wants to remove the ability completely

Where did you find such statement?

Also arguing about 2 Zis to counter JP4 is telling everything about you to me.

Where did you find such statement?

Also arguing about 2 Zis to counter JP4 is telling everything about you to me.

I think it's kinda OP to have such armored, hard-hitting tank(ok AT-tank) with invisibility. Yep i'm ok with DPS and Armor of Jagdpanzer, but invis at 1st star, rly?

Also arguing about 2 Zis to counter JP4 is telling everything about you to me.

Tell me why that wouldn't work, don't you counter Tank destroyers with at guns?

OP wants to remove the ability completely, instead of removing this one, why not making the other abilities of the units in game better all together? Soviets e.g. are in dire need of having better vet abilities. I'm just against suggestions that make the game more monotonous and reduce possible strategies.

I fail to see OP asking for the removal of the ability. People reads what they want to read.

So you are in favour of making units with camouflage been able to cloak as quickly after or during combat? I'm ok with the ability as a tool to ambush or first strike, but not as an escape tool.

I fail to see OP asking for the removal of the ability. People reads what they want to read.

So you are in favour of making units with camouflage been able to cloak as quickly after or during combat? I'm ok with the ability as a tool to ambush or first strike, but not as an escape tool.

Yep I read that the ability should be removed, what I found stupid. Especially when you ready the Thread title, you come across such thought.

No, I don't think cloak should be working in combat, it's meant to be used for ambushes, not for sniper play on tanks.

People didn't cry about the JP4 AS MUCH before because it used to take an average of 3-4 shots to kill it with jackson instead of like now 4-6 shots. The difference is quite astounding actually the way battles play out.

couple of things.

one, damage increasing abilities/vet should not be in the game; they fuck with the very carefully setup damage standards.

two, the jpIV should not be able to cloak in combat. that probably means giving cloak a longer cooldown and/or larger radius in which enemy units cannot be. the cloak is both very effective offensively and very effective defensively (as long as the jpIV isn't taking fire you can pop it to hide it from surprises).

three, the jpIV is a decent TD at vet 0 and is massively OP by vet 5. the whole vet 5 system was a bad idea because it's very, very hard to balance and relic sucks at balancing.

couple of things.
one, damage increasing abilities/vet should not be in the game; they fuck with the very carefully setup damage standards.

Totally agree, changing such abilities to RoF and accuracy bonuses, penetration bonuses in rare conditions, like HVAP and HEAT, will bring healthier gameplay. With RoF bonuses we can keep same DPS, but will need more shots and opponent will have more chance to react.

Tell me why that wouldn't work, don't you counter Tank destroyers with at guns?

Okay, let's figure it out. How many shot with 2 Zis'es are needed to KILL JP4? JP4 is always solo and not covered with infantry like obers?

couple of things.

Why such obvious things are NOT connoisseurshiped by Relics?

Why are you people always so keen on killing a tank?

Do you also think countered=wiped for infantry?

If a tank(or TD) can't operate without exposing itself to lethal danger, its already countered, you're not fighting it, its parked in the back, doing nothing. 2 ZiS guns will deter JP4 from chasing or positioning too forward.

AT doesn't need to KILL a unit to counter it, if opponent can't use the unit freely without the punishment, you already countered it in that area.

You don't expect to kill every single infantry squad you encounter, why do you think you should kill much more expensive armor?

Why are you people always so keen on killing a tank?

Do you also think countered=wiped for infantry?

If a tank(or TD) can't operate without exposing itself to lethal danger, its already countered, you're not fighting it, its parked in the back, doing nothing. 2 ZiS guns will deter JP4 from chasing or positioning too forward.

AT doesn't need to KILL a unit to counter it, if opponent can't use the unit freely without the punishment, you already countered it in that area.

You don't expect to kill every single infantry squad you encounter, why do you think you should kill much more expensive armor?

For once I agree with Katitof.
Having more than once JP4 on the field is a liability for OKW. So if you have a zis or even two around the IV/70 can shoot once or maybe twice before being forced to retreat. At that point you can safely put up /85s or use the zis' barrage to force a breakthrough

Why are you people always so keen on killing a tank?

Do you also think countered=wiped for infantry?

In terms for OKW - yes. You must kill their units or they will be back with more abilities after 2-3 minutes.

In terms for OKW - yes. You must kill their units or they will be back with more abilities after 2-3 minutes.

Fanboyism at its best. OKW JP4 gets to vet 5 after 3 minutes. Basic coh rules don't apply to OKW, every unit must be wiped or destroyed, otherwise it's not countered

I'm sure your quality posts would be appreciated on the official forums.

Its funny people even complain about vet5 jp4 - you basically never see one. You have to be so much better than you opponent to get it to vet5 that you don't even need the vet to begin with. The problems with the jp4 are at vet1 and 2, which are realistic to obtain even if your opponent is pretty good. Really the invisibility wouldn't even be quite as much of a problem if turreted tanks didn't turn their turrets away from the jp4 every time it cloaked again, so then when it uncloaks you can't shoot it because your tank is looking the wrong way again.

That being said, it still shouldn't be able to move forward while cloaked. You shouldn't be able to farm veterency by rolling forward, sniping a shot at the enemy, then rolling backwards. The tank isn't meant to be a scout so why should it be able to scout? Cloaking on the Luchs makes sense because it is a tank that is basically only useful for scouting late game anyway, and it gives this tank a potentially fun/interesting role once heavier armor stops it from being able to drive around shooting infantry. jp4 should be revealed when it is in motion and I can't think of a single logical argument why this wouldn't be the case - even snipers can't run around cloaked.

whether or not the jpIV get's vet depends almost entirely on the enemy. if it's well used it won't die and just has to wait to be fed vet. in a 1v1 it probably won't get vet 5 but it very, very effective at vet 2 or 3. in 3v3/4v4s they can easily reach vet 5.

the jpIV is also one of the few OKW vehicles to come out in the early/mid game (although it's not really needed early) but that allows it to have a LOT of field presence if the enemy gets tanks and makes it easier to get vet.

as far as killing vehicles goes... because of their mobility (and cost) vehicles generally either die or kill. they don't spend much time being useless in the back unless its a TD that's already killed of all enemy vehicles. they cost way too much and are far to effective to not use them when ever possible. additionally, because they require only time (and a repair squad) to heal, they don't cause significant bleed unless they die so even if they get damaged you haven't done anything unless you actually kill the vehicle and this means that people are more careless with them then they would be if they bleed mp. if repairing cost mp AT damage would be more significant than just getting vet to have a better chance to actually kill the vehicle.

if you compare infantry to vehicles you can force infantry off by causing (or threatening) bleed, threatening a wipe, or suppressing. vehicles can only be forced off by threatening a wipe because they neither bleed nor can they be suppressed. additionally, while infantry can be "snared" with suppression, the only snares that work against vehicles are mines and AT grenades (plus misc things like TWP and crew shaken).

tl;dr: vehicles only care about damage and snares where as infantry are much more expensive to keep alive and care about a lot more things.

I've never had an issue with the JgdPz4. I like using it when I play OKW and I like it better than the SU-85, I just wish the soviets got the SU-100