As I can see OKW is a very limited and blobby faction to play...one of the reason is the badly chosen role of their frontline infantry: Volksgrenadiers.
With the recent long range panzershreck accuracy nerf and the raketen buff OKW has more AT that doesn't promote blobbing as it did before.
Therefore my suggestion is to remove the panzershreck upgrade from volksgrenadiers and repleace it with an upgrade consisting 5 MP-40s (50-60 muni). This would allow the OKW players to either have a medicore 5 man KaR-98 defensive squad or a 5 man MP-40 assault squad, which would allow OKW to play without Obers in late-game.
Sturmpioners would get a double shreck upgrade for (120 muni) as a compensation, this would stop the OKW shreck blobs for once and for all because of the high cost of the sturms.
Ideas regarding this problem?
Let's talk about Volksgrenadiers
2 May 2015, 15:13 PM
#1
Posts: 1617
2 May 2015, 15:20 PM
#2
Posts: 1550 | Subs: 7
2 words. Assault Grenadiers. Basically giving them MP40s would not really solve particularly much. It would just throw them from one thing to another and would probably result in some lovely blobbing that way.
My suggestion on this is pretty much give them some MP44s but singleshot as an upgrade. Slightly improved damage. But with an ability that allows them to burstfire for a short period of time and there a debuff can always be added in.
That way they overall become stronger but at the same time can also pull of an assault role. but in a way that makes blobbing a lot more hazardous and thus not the desired action.
My suggestion on this is pretty much give them some MP44s but singleshot as an upgrade. Slightly improved damage. But with an ability that allows them to burstfire for a short period of time and there a debuff can always be added in.
That way they overall become stronger but at the same time can also pull of an assault role. but in a way that makes blobbing a lot more hazardous and thus not the desired action.
2 May 2015, 15:20 PM
#3
Posts: 542
MP40s in this game are awful, so unless you suggest different stats for them I say it is not a good idea.
I also don't think that Panzerschrecks belong on Sturmpioniere.
I also don't think that Panzerschrecks belong on Sturmpioniere.
2 May 2015, 15:24 PM
#4
Posts: 1571
2 x MP44 upgrade
2 May 2015, 15:25 PM
#5
Posts: 300
You would have to change alot of other things if you want to take the shreck off Volksgrenadier thats the problem.....
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2 May 2015, 15:26 PM
#6
Posts: 1617
You would have to change alot of other things if you want to take the shreck off Volksgrenadier thats the problem.....
For example?
2 May 2015, 15:49 PM
#7
3 Posts: 658
I'd really like to see shrecks being removed from Volks if they get Pzfausts and maybe an AI upgrade.
MP-40s though...well, they suck. StGs or a simple buff to their DPS without adding new weapons might be better.
Shrecks could be given to Sturms for 120MU (2 Shrecks).
Ammo income could then be increased to 100% again.
MP-40s though...well, they suck. StGs or a simple buff to their DPS without adding new weapons might be better.
Shrecks could be given to Sturms for 120MU (2 Shrecks).
Ammo income could then be increased to 100% again.
2 May 2015, 15:54 PM
#8
Posts: 300
For example?
-Volks would probably need something more since M40 would basically make them Assault Grenadiers not very useful outside of CQC maps.
-SturmPioneers with Shrecks shoulds like a myraid of potential problems with all the other things they do would need some serious testing
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2 May 2015, 16:02 PM
#9
Posts: 1225
1. As already said, the upgrade would have to be beneficial, Mp 40s are a downgrade.
2. After playing quite a few, OKW 1v1s this patch, OKW needs all the help it can possibly get, this solution would only further cripple an already strongly lacklustre faction.
3. Pschrecks on Sturms are a horrible idea, the unit would not perform any role well.
2. After playing quite a few, OKW 1v1s this patch, OKW needs all the help it can possibly get, this solution would only further cripple an already strongly lacklustre faction.
3. Pschrecks on Sturms are a horrible idea, the unit would not perform any role well.
2 May 2015, 16:15 PM
#10
3 Posts: 658
3. Pschrecks on Sturms are a horrible idea, the unit would not perform any role well.
Why would that be? If you want to use them as AI squad just don't get shrecks.
As a tank hunter squad they'd perform quite well with 2 shrecks. You'd have to sacrifice some AI power but you could upgrade Volks in return.
Sturmpios are best suited for having shrecks IMO.
2 May 2015, 16:18 PM
#11
Posts: 1617
Why would that be? If you want to use them as AI squad just don't get shrecks.
As a tank hunter squad they'd perform quite well with 2 shrecks. You'd have to sacrifice some AI power but you could upgrade Volks in return.
Sturmpios are best suited for having shrecks IMO.
Exactly; a Sturmpio and a raketen can take 3/4 of a Sherman's health in 1 volley.
Either have a minesweeper AI squad or a tank hunter squad.
2 May 2015, 16:23 PM
#12
Posts: 1225
Why would that be? If you want to use them as AI squad just don't get shrecks.
As a tank hunter squad they'd perform quite well with 2 shrecks. You'd have to sacrifice some AI power but you could upgrade Volks in return.
Sturmpios are best suited for having shrecks IMO.
On the contrary, Sturmpios are quite possibly the squad worst suited for Schrecks in the OKW arsenal.
About 10 minutes into the game, Sturms are largely useless in the anti infantry role (talking solid opponents here). Thats ok though, as infantry combat are not what Sturms are there for to begin with: Sturms need to repair, and most importantly sweep, especially against Soviets. Using a squishy 4 man squad as mainline AT is generally a bad idea already with PGrens, and would be even worse with Sturms. Losing your Sturms is usually a catastrophe, and thats just a risk you cannot run by engaging anything with an AOE profile.
BTW I think they already tried just that in the Alpha and quickly reverted it, and its not hard to see why....
2 May 2015, 16:25 PM
#13
Posts: 270
lol, volks with smg.
I'll try again.
The source of my frustrations that should be removed
2 May 2015, 16:45 PM
#14
Posts: 1617
lol, volks with smg.
Why not? Having a short-mid range assault unit available wouldn't be a bad idea as an extra choice.
Let's say I have 3 volks all with KAR-98s holding the line + 1-2 SMG volks for flanking/defending. A raketen and Sturm with double shreck can hold off armor.
I saw it way too many times that an allied squad ran up to a volk and sent it running home as they can't do shit at short range.
AI upgrade for volks would allow OKW to have a better chance on CQC maps and rely less on obers, which get insta-wiped many occasions.
2 May 2015, 16:52 PM
#15
Posts: 270
Volks can't do shit at any range. They are basic starting inf and their Kar should get a DPS buff. OKW isn't struggling at short range, Falls, laser STG, pios.
However they lack a reliable and affordable mid-long range unit.
However they lack a reliable and affordable mid-long range unit.
I'll try again.
The source of my frustrations that should be removed
2 May 2015, 16:53 PM
#16
Posts: 97
this kinda sounds like lets make volks spammy again
all okw need is some ranged inf in med truck tech to relief volks from main inf role - propably obers with nerfed stats and lmg unlockable with flak hq tech
all okw need is some ranged inf in med truck tech to relief volks from main inf role - propably obers with nerfed stats and lmg unlockable with flak hq tech
2 May 2015, 16:54 PM
#17
3 Posts: 658
About 10 minutes into the game, Sturms are largely useless in the anti infantry role (talking solid opponents here). Thats ok though, as infantry combat are not what Sturms are there for to begin with: Sturms need to repair, and most importantly sweep, especially against Soviets. Using a squishy 4 man squad as mainline AT is generally a bad idea already with PGrens, and would be even worse with Sturms. Losing your Sturms is usually a catastrophe, and thats just a risk you cannot run by engaging anything with an AOE profile.
BTW I think they already tried just that in the Alpha and quickly reverted it, and its not hard to see why....
Shrecks would be a possible upgrade. You wouldn't have to get them if you don't want it. You can use your Sturms to repair, sweep etc OR get shrecks if you think it's necessary. Even with shrecks you could still use them to repair your vehicles - even better because they will most likely vet up pretty fast which increases their repair speed.
The mechanized regiment also provides repairing so you don't really need Sturms to work as repair units all the time.
Of course, you had to be careful with them but that's not a bad thing IMO. It prevents people from moving their shreck squads straight up to tanks to kill it or expecting them to solo any vehicles.
PGrens are not mainline AT IMO, you have ATGs + AT nades/Pzfausts for that. Shreck'd Pgrens/Sturmpios would function as support, e.g. preventing enemy tanks from flanking your TD or finishing an enemy tank that is already low on health. I'd never use them to stand up to enemy tanks alone.
2 May 2015, 17:02 PM
#18
Posts: 1225
Again, I don't see that working at all without a snare for Volks and an additional buff for the Rak, which is something I outlined in another thread.
2 May 2015, 17:07 PM
#19
3 Posts: 658
Again, I don't see that working at all without a snare for Volks and an additional buff for the Rak, which is something I outlined in another thread.
I agree. That's why I said "I'd really like to see shrecks being removed from Volks if they get Pzfausts[...]".
What kind of buff do you propose for the Rak43? Durability, I guess. It gets one-shotted too often IMO.
2 May 2015, 18:02 PM
#20
Posts: 1225
I agree. That's why I said "I'd really like to see shrecks being removed from Volks if they get Pzfausts[...]".
What kind of buff do you propose for the Rak43? Durability, I guess. It gets one-shotted too often IMO.
Ye. Ideally, something along the lines of green cover for the crew and five more range, would have to be finetuned of course. I made a post on this in the previous patch, included on top of that faster setup/ready aim time for Rak (which is now implemented), PzFaust and 90 muni triple StG upgrade for Volks, without Schrecks for Sturms tho, as I still don't see any benefit in that upgrade, or rather, I think it would have so limited attractiveness nobody would choose it anyways.
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