Let's talk about Volksgrenadiers

MP40s are just bad. Assgrens are just so aweful because either A they get kited to death or B shocks eat them for breakfast.

The con PPSH is inferior to the Shock One. You can make weapons have different stats for different units.

Not in the case of weapons that can be dropped. Performance of them is only affected by squad modificators. (That is why you shouldnt pick LMG from Partisans)

Note: reminder that you shouldn't also pick Bars with SP/Falls/PG

and why shouldn't Sturmpioneers be suited for infantry combat?

Their original design implied that they were "Assault Pioneers" or "Assault Engineers". They were basically panzergrenadiers with engineering capabilities and their effective combat range was nerfed because of whining.

The OKW has more or less been crippled by the fact that their early game relied on a synchronization of Volksgrens providing a base of fire and Sturmpioneers closing the gap in a flank or a push for close quarters.

But because they can't hit anything while on the move or outside of fisting distance, they are pretty much ten kinds of shit. Disagree with me all you want, but that's my honest to god assessment on them.

Obersoldaten became the new Sturmpioneers after Sturms were nerfed, then Obers got nerfed, so now OKW is desperately limping along with Panzerfusilliers and Fallschirmjager. It's kind of sad really.

You know right that sooner or later that falls and fus are going to be nerfed right? They actually perform a ai function. That is totally unacceptable they must be nerfed. I mean why even build obers? They got no at, you have to by a mg or stg (both nerfed) and you got 4 man squad (same as falls and jli though). If you are not going spec. op for the stg and/or the rest of the doctrinal uses you really have no reason to build obers. Plus unless you tech up super fast jli,fuss and falls come out earlier and provide more ai killing and or engine killing.

Edit: Volks suck as ai. They are only good for the assault nade destroying buildings and picking up equipment.

MP40s are just bad. Assgrens are just so aweful because either A they get kited to death or B shocks eat them for breakfast.

I agree AGs need a bit of a leg up, but the unit that has Sprint gets kited to death?

Not in the case of weapons that can be dropped. Performance of them is only affected by squad modificators. (That is why you shouldnt pick LMG from Partisans)

Note: reminder that you shouldn't also pick Bars with SP/Falls/PG

You could make the Volks LMG either be unable to be dropped or be inferior to the Ober LMG. And if you picked it up it would still be a "crappier" LMG.

You know right that sooner or later that falls and fus are going to be nerfed right? They actually perform a ai function. That is totally unacceptable they must be nerfed. I mean why even build obers? They got no at, you have to by a mg or stg (both nerfed) and you got 4 man squad (same as falls and jli though). If you are not going spec. op for the stg and/or the rest of the doctrinal uses you really have no reason to build obers. Plus unless you tech up super fast jli,fuss and falls come out earlier and provide more ai killing and or engine killing.

Edit: Volks suck as ai. They are only good for the assault nade destroying buildings and picking up equipment.

+1 for epic sarcasm.

In all seriousness though, almost all anti-personnel capable infantry that the Axis have has been nerfed to some degree. It's one of the reasons I find that Allied infantry spam has become so ludicrously effective and pervasive in most ladder rankings.

the thing is that LMG42 is inferior to the 34, even after the nerf. Grens are also more expensive to maintain and only consist of 4 models.

The Lmg34 isnt better its just obers have higher acc/damage.

Obviously volks wouldnt perform as well with them... (similar to ostruppen with lmg42's. theyre not as deadly as grens with it).

The Lmg34 isnt better its just obers have higher acc/damage.

Obviously volks wouldnt perform as well with them... (similar to ostruppen with lmg42's. theyre not as deadly as grens with it).

The LMG34 has more DPS than the LMG42 so it's better.

You should know that squads don't have accuracy or damage values but their weapons.

Whether an LMG34 gets carried by Volks or Obers is irrelevant, it deals the same damage.

Add some kind of advancend cover bonus system to all units... it would reduce blobing because units in cover will be more effective. (e.g when in cover 8% more accuracy and 6% rate of fire)

Increase the cost of Volks and buff them a little bit or implement some alternative inf. Because the Sturmpioniere are too expensive right now so a Volks blob is probably the best choice.

I'll say it again:

Shrecks for a cheap, mainline inf unit is a massive design flaw.


1. They should lose their shrecks in exchange for Panzerfausts which get unlocked once one HQ has been converted.

2. Shrecks are given to Sturmpios (double shrecks for 120MU) so that people who feel the need for a mobile AT squad in the mid-late game can have one. They can have sweepers + shrecks. Shrecks get unlocked once you have two HQs converted.

You can buy sweepers in the early game and later, if you want to, get some shrecks to complement your army.

The Raketenwerfer in its current state + Pzfausts/mines are enough AT to deal with early vehicles even without shrecks IMO.

3. Volks get a price increase + a cover bonus (slightly more accuracy / RoF). This small DPS boost in cover will reduce blobbing (hopefully) and will make Volks worth their cost even without shrecks.

Alternatively, Volks can be given a simple munitions upgrade which increases their DPS (more accuracy / higher RoF etc).

Volks fixed.

Volks spam and shreck blob should be discouraged, yet all I can see in this thread are racing ideas on how to make volkspam even more powerful and independent of other units.

Some people should get a reality grip.

I'll just throw it here:

Volks now cost 280mp-300, no stat buffs.
Then you can have multiple equipment packages.

There, volkspam fixed.

Blobbing and spamming discouraged.
Combined arms encouraged.
You have your flexible volks you strive for so much.

Volks spam and shreck blob should be discouraged, yet all I can see in this thread are racing ideas on how to make volkspam even more powerful and independent of other units.

Some people should get a reality grip.

I'll just throw it here:

Volks now cost 280mp-300, no stat buffs.
Then you can have multiple equipment packages.

There, volkspam fixed.

Blobbing and spamming discouraged.
Combined arms encouraged.
You have your flexible volks you strive for so much.

You will fix Volksgrenadier spam, but it will not be balanced that way.

Volks spam and shreck blob should be discouraged, yet all I can see in this thread are racing ideas on how to make volkspam even more powerful and independent of other units.

Some people should get a reality grip.

I'll just throw it here:

Volks now cost 280mp-300, no stat buffs.
Then you can have multiple equipment packages.

There, volkspam fixed.

Blobbing and spamming discouraged.
Combined arms encouraged.
You have your flexible volks you strive for so much.

Because paying 280-300mp for Volks in their current state would be fair. And mun upgrades with less than standard mun income to make these overpriced dudes even remotely useful beyond 5 mins. Much balance many wows m8.

Because paying 280-300mp for Volks in their current state would be fair. And mun upgrades with less than standard mun income to make these overpriced dudes even remotely useful beyond 5 mins. Much balance many wows m8.

Or you can look at it this way:

You still have basic infantry that scales well, but isn't independent of other squads(volks theme fulfilled early game).

You have a cost which prevents spam and encourages you to actually use supporting units in all stages of the game, I gave random number for the cost, but the main idea is to increase it enough to make volkspam only builds still an option, but not a no brainer choice introducing basically something they lack-a disadvantage.

You have a unit that scales thanks to upgrades(both AT and AI, so your point about them being "remotely useful" past 5 mins is completely moot), making it live up to the cost and be more independent in mid/late game. God forbid you have to actually manage your muni instead of pumping it all mindlessly into shrecks! If USF is able to deck their squads with 120mun per squad while using other upgrades and abilities, so is OKW capable of equipping multiple 90mun upgrades, which already is proven to work with volks+fusiliers builds and there is no problem with it.

So... get a bigger picture.

Or you can look at it this way:

You still have basic infantry that scales well, but isn't independent of other squads(volks theme fulfilled early game).

You have a cost which prevents spam and encourages you to actually use supporting units in all stages of the game, I gave random number for the cost, but the main idea is to increase it enough to make volkspam only builds still an option, but not a no brainer choice introducing basically something they lack-a disadvantage.

You have a unit that scales thanks to upgrades(both AT and AI, so your point about them being "remotely useful" past 5 mins is completely moot), making it live up to the cost and be more independent in mid/late game. God forbid you have to actually manage your muni instead of pumping it all mindlessly into shrecks! If USF is able to deck their squads with 120mun per squad while using other upgrades and abilities, so is OKW capable of equipping multiple 90mun upgrades, which already is proven to work with volks+fusiliers builds and there is no problem with it.

So... get a bigger picture.

The Problem is that you would need to pay 280-300mp (or just a random amount of more mp for that matter) for the same vanilla Volks we have now. And you would need to pay actual munitions with 80% mun income to make them remotely useful after 5 mins. My argument isnt moot here. I said that you would need to pay munitions for them to scale. Which is kinda fine on its own. But, paying 280mp vor vanilla volks? No. Its like giving a huge nerf to OKW they dont need. Because Schreck Blobbing is such a huge issue nowadays. I havent seen it for ages, literally.

But god forbid, dont change USF, which have Riflemen actually worth the initial 280mp cost. I wouldnt want to pay 280mp in the early game to see my Volks struggling vs Cons.

Your change wouldnt fix blobbing, it would just hurt OKW even more. I suggest to play the damn game, especially 1v1 as OKW. See how much success you'll have and rethink this stupid mp change.

Don't stick to that number as it was a patch note.
It could be 250-260-270, whatever value is suitably balanced to keep spam viable, but keep it at disadvantage over combined arms as well by making cost and reinforce cost big enough to not make it worth it on the long run.

Just look at USF, they have high initial cost and bleed like pigs in mid and late game, which means rifles are still strong and versatile, but if you spam too much, you will cripple yourself.

I would LOVE to add another argument, that would shut you down and back my idea without you having any way of countering it, but I would have to break NDA to do it

lord of the forums

Don't stick to that number as it was a patch note.
It could be 250-260-270, whatever value is suitably balanced to keep spam viable, but keep it at disadvantage over combined arms as well by making cost and reinforce cost big enough to not make it worth it on the long run.

Just look at USF, they have high initial cost and bleed like pigs in mid and late game, which means rifles are still strong and versatile, but if you spam too much, you will cripple yourself.

I would LOVE to add another argument, that would shut you down and back my idea without you having any way of countering it, but I would have to break NDA to do it

I know that argument. Cant discuss tho

#.org #relik

I think for atleast 60 munitions they should be able to equip chainsaws, the melee aspect in this game is severly lacking and this is the change it needs.

Volks now cost 280mp-300, no stat buffs.

lol dat weed