Remove free lieutenant

I wouldn't call the entire point of OKW stupid. And every faction getting the same basic income is irrelevant because it still leaves OKW at a .66 disadvantage because they are getting less from the actual points they are capturing and holding.

This is gonna be an offtopic to finally debunk the myth that OKW is at a .66 disadvantage.

I'm gonna do you the math, again, since it seems it's hard for you to admit hard facts.
-Base income at 50-50 map control, represents 20% of your fuel income as OKW.
-You are getting 5f instead of the 7f on fuel points (71%)
-You get 2f instead of 3f on strategic points (66%)

With that been said, i'm gonna present you #MathOP

-1 Strategic point
OKW: 6
Rest: 7
Result: 85.71%

-2 Strategic points + 1fuel
OKW: 13
Rest: 17
Result: 76.47%

-5 SP + 1f
OKW: 19f
Rest: 26f
R: 73.07%

-10 SP + 2f
OKW: 34f
Rest: 48f
R: 70.83%

Now, please, try to show me how is OKW getting .66fuel.

PD: why is this relevant? Because that 4-6 percent difference, means a lot on the long run.

This is gonna be an offtopic to finally debunk the myth that OKW is at a .66 disadvantage.

I'm gonna do you the math, again, since it seems it's hard for you to admit hard facts.
-Base income at 50-50 map control, represents 20% of your fuel income as OKW.
-You are getting 5f instead of the 7f on fuel points (71%)
-You get 2f instead of 3f on strategic points (66%)

With that been said, i'm gonna present you #MathOP

-1 Strategic point
OKW: 6
Rest: 7
Result: 85.71%

-2 Strategic points + 1fuel
OKW: 13
Rest: 17
Result: 76.47%

-5 SP + 1f
OKW: 19f
Rest: 26f
R: 73.07%

-10 SP + 2f
OKW: 34f
Rest: 48f
R: 70.83%

Now, please, try to show me how is OKW getting .66fuel.

PD: why is this relevant? Because that 4-6 percent difference, means a lot on the long run.

The reason you get 5 instead of 7 fuel is because when the game adjusts fuel it rounds up. If it was 66% you would be getting fraction of fuel meaning the game has to round up.

When OKW can get .66 fuel without the math giving them a fraction capable being rounded up, they do.

The reason I state .66 instead of going through a complicated math formula to adjust every price to assume optimal conditions I adjust it by the standard .66 reduction because that's the modifier Relic put on the fuel income.

You get 2 instead of 1.98, you get 5 instead of 4.62.

EDIT: Engineering major 2op. And the difference of 4-6% is literally 5-6 fuel, which is one salvage, chill your tism'

Truck costs 40 fuel and the Flak truck 80 btw. Or maybe we should remove vet 4 system, and free repair/heal/flak. And the first one is free btw, and you do not need to tech up to unlock grenade/schreck. Which means OKW has the cheapest teching BY FAR.

Seriously Alex, can you be less biaised or are you forcing yourself to be the center of attention?

Truck costs 40 fuel and the Flak truck 80 btw. Or maybe we should remove vet 4 system, and free repair/heal/flak. And the first one is free btw, and you do not need to tech up to unlock grenade/schreck. Which means OKW has the cheapest teching BY FAR.

Seriously Alex, can you be less biaised or are you forcing yourself to be the center of attention?

The first tier is free for every faction but USF. And as pointed out earlier the fuel disability means said HQ's will hit the field about the same time you could make T4/T3 as Soviets.

Except there is very little incentive for Soviets to rush T3/T4 (most of the time), so they don't, while OKW depends often times on rushing the Schwer.

And you have to tech up to get the shrek? It's why losing a truck before their first HQ is converted is almost pretty much an automatic loss for OKW.

The first tier is free for every faction but USF. And as pointed out earlier the fuel disability means said HQ's will hit the field about the same time you could make T4/T3 as Soviets.

Except there is very little incentive for Soviets to rush T3/T4 (most of the time), so they don't, while OKW depends often times on rushing the Schwer.

And you have to tech up to get the shrek? It's why losing a truck before their first HQ is converted is almost pretty much an automatic loss for OKW.

Pro hint: do not truck push if you are not able to keep alive your truck. Better, put the truck in your base.

Btw, I do not see why this is relative to tech cost and speed.

OKW has the fastest and cheapest teching. Deal. With. IT.

Pro hint: do not truck push if you are not able to keep alive your truck. Better, put the truck in your base.

Btw, I do not see why this is relative to tech cost and speed.

OKW has the fastest and cheapest teching. Deal. With. IT.

1. I never mentioned truck pushing.

2. The LT and teching are relative to tech cost and speed.

3. No, that would be USF. You can rush a major just as fast as you can rush a schwer. Soviets and Ostheer don't tech rush because of "call in meta".

Pro hint: do not truck push if you are not able to keep alive your truck. Better, put the truck in your base.

Btw, I do not see why this is relative to tech cost and speed.

OKW has the fastest and cheapest teching. Deal. With. IT.

OKW has the cheapest teching on paper, and they should get the cheapest teching because of their resource penalty. However, this is not what we actually see happening in the game. What we see in-game is that Soviets don't need to tech past T2, medics and AT nades and can get elite infantry and awesome call-in tanks without needing to tech further simply by clicking the guards motor doctrine or shock rifle doctrine. OKW can only hope to counter these units with T4 units, so they are forced to tech.

So right of the bat we can see that the fuel investment for tech is actually a lot higher for the fuel-starved faction than it is for the non-fuel starved faction (25 for soviets, 80 for OKW when corrected for starting fuel). So what about manpower? Surely OKW is cheaper right? Well.. again, no. With OKW you spend a total of 400mp on tech, with soviets 535. It's a small difference in OKWs favor but there is one gameplay element that swings the manpower balance to the soviets favor: Demo charges. With one simple click the soviets 135 manpower disadvantage is turned into a 100 manpower advantage.

Now, before anyone dares to say "get minesweepers lolz": You clearly have not played enough OKW if you think more minesweepers are the solution. OKW sweeper squads are super expensive and valuable (but fragile) combat units and are thus unsuited for just capping territories (imagine calling in shock/paratroopers in just to have them cap the edges of the map). For every OKW sweeper squad you have, a soviet player can build 2 engeneer squads, making in near-impossible to predict where demo-charges are going to be placed. Furthermore, OKW sweepers have HORRENDOUS range. Demo charges are only revealed when you are already in-range of the bloody thing.

OKW has the cheapest teching on paper, and they should get the cheapest teching because of their resource penalty. However, this is not what we actually see happening in the game. What we see in-game is that Soviets don't need to tech past T2, medics and AT nades and can get elite infantry and awesome call-in tanks without needing to tech further simply by clicking the guards motor doctrine or shock rifle doctrine. OKW can only hope to counter these units with T4 units, so they are forced to tech.

So right of the bat we can see that the fuel investment for tech is actually a lot higher for the fuel-starved faction than it is for the non-fuel starved faction (25 for soviets, 80 for OKW when corrected for starting fuel). So what about manpower? Surely OKW is cheaper right? Well.. again, no. With OKW you spend a total of 400mp on tech, with soviets 535. It's a small difference in OKWs favor but there is one gameplay element that swings the manpower balance to the soviets favor: Demo charges. With one simple click the soviets 135 manpower disadvantage is turned into a 100 manpower advantage.

Now, before anyone dares to say "get minesweepers lolz": You clearly have not played enough OKW if you think more minesweepers are the solution. OKW sweeper squads are super expensive and valuable (but fragile) combat units and are thus unsuited for just capping territories (imagine calling in shock/paratroopers in just to have them cap the edges of the map). For every OKW sweeper squad you have, a soviet player can build 2 engeneer squads, making in near-impossible to predict where demo-charges are going to be placed. Furthermore, OKW sweepers have HORRENDOUS range. Demo charges are only revealed when you are already in-range of the bloody thing.

Excellent post +1.


I hope the people who come to disagree with you will check you stats and see you're top 50 with Soviets before they start telling you you're wrong.

Ost suffers from manpower problems because of the teching, that's why you get outnumbered by rifles + lieut despite rifles costing more than any other ost unit with thee exception of the sniper and this is a problem that you'll feel against soviets aswell.

In other words, remove manpower cost from the battle phases but leave the fuel cost and leave the manpower/fuel cost the same for buildings.

In other words, remove manpower cost from the battle phases but leave the fuel cost and leave the manpower/fuel cost the same for buildings.

I wouldn't go that far but I agree, Wehrmacht teching needs some changes.

MP costs for BPs should be halved, fuel costs for BPs should be reduced while being increased for the actual buildings. That way you have less MP problems and you can skip tiers easier if you want to.

The reason you get 5 instead of 7 fuel is because when the game adjusts fuel it rounds up. If it was 66% you would be getting fraction of fuel meaning the game has to round up.

When OKW can get .66 fuel without the math giving them a fraction capable being rounded up, they do.

The reason I state .66 instead of going through a complicated math formula to adjust every price to assume optimal conditions I adjust it by the standard .66 reduction because that's the modifier Relic put on the fuel income.

You get 2 instead of 1.98, you get 5 instead of 4.62.

EDIT: Engineering major 2op. And the difference of 4-6% is literally 5-6 fuel, which is one salvage, chill your tism'

Getting a PV
175/.66 + 80/.66 = 386
175/.73 + 80/.73 = 349

Getting a KT
260/.66 + 40/.66 + 80/.66 = 575
260/.73 + 40/.73 + 80/.73 = 520

If you are still gonna theorycraft with fuel convertion, again, mind you do it rightly.

Defamatory posts invised -and inevitably, follow-ups, citing said posts.

Please keep it clean.

Getting a PV
175/.66 + 80/.66 = 386
175/.73 + 80/.73 = 349

Getting a KT
260/.66 + 40/.66 + 80/.66 = 575
260/.73 + 40/.73 + 80/.73 = 520

If you are still gonna theorycraft with fuel convertion, again, mind you do it rightly.

Well first off, since strategic points and caches do in fact give you .66 (or at least almost exactly .66 since it's only rounding up from 1.98 to 2) if your not working off fuel points then OKW really is actually getting the amount of fuel it's supposed to, but the reason OKW get's 5 fuel from fuel points is that they get 4.62 fuel, but the game can't do fractions so it rounds up.

And are you suggesting adjusting fuel income is theory crafting? Because it is literally how teching and build times are balanced. The reason why the Schwer is 80 fuel is because with the income disability your paying the same (or close to) Soviet t4 or t3.

Well first off, since strategic points and caches do in fact give you .66 (or at least almost exactly .66 since it's only rounding up from 1.98 to 2) if your not working off fuel points then OKW really is actually getting the amount of fuel it's supposed to, but the reason OKW get's 5 fuel from fuel points is that they get 4.62 fuel, but the game can't do fractions so it rounds up.

And are you suggesting adjusting fuel income is theory crafting? Because it is literally how teching and build times are balanced. The reason why the Schwer is 80 fuel is because with the income disability your paying the same (or close to) Soviet t4 or t3.

What i'm saying is that going up with .66 is wrong, when in reality, you are getting resources always above 70%. During the first 3 or more mins of the game, comparative income is higher than 75% and stabilizes on 73% with a 50-50 map control. A smaller amount of map control on both sides, benefits OKW (to a degree, how OKW was initially designed to be played).

If OKW was meant to get plain and simple .66, base income would be 3 instead of 4. I'm just pointing out that the margin of error when converting is not small. It goes from 50f to +100f depending the lenght of the game.

What i'm saying is that going up with .66 is wrong, when in reality, you are getting resources always above 70%. During the first 3 or more mins of the game, comparative income is higher than 75% and stabilizes on 73% with a 50-50 map control. A smaller amount of map control on both sides, benefits OKW (to a degree, how OKW was initially designed to be played).

If OKW was meant to get plain and simple .66, base income would be 3 instead of 4. I'm just pointing out that the margin of error when converting is not small. It goes from 50f to +100f depending the lenght of the game.

Good maths. In any case do you agree that a KT doesn't cost 260 fuel, that the Flak HQ doesn't cost 80, etc?

the lower amount of fuel received does not increase the cost of things, it just delays their timings (which is the whole point of it). honestly, it probably would have been simpler for relic to just make OKW stuff have a higher fuel cost and not fuck around with the reduced income as it causes way to many other issues.