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Do you think this alpha should be in waves?

29 Apr 2015, 15:15 PM
#21
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2015, 15:06 PMRMMLz


Not really, we had some drastic changes in the previous alpha. What you say makes sense, but that's not the case here. It was like 5-6 days prior to release and they changed the whole mechanics of OKW. Not that it was a mistake, but come on, changes like that at the final moments?
Remember truck territory chains?
29 Apr 2015, 15:17 PM
#22
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559

See and that's what confuses me, they should have got in, they would have brought so much valuable feedback to the table. And personally would I have preferred to be in it, yea... but at this point I'm past it. I feel for some people though, some people have applied and never been accepted and those who have applied and get accepted everytime. For those who argue that everyone should get a chance for alpha some time or another, remember that there are those who have gotten sidelined everytime. My only issue that I have just based on these forums that majority of its members got into alpha, Relic should do some sort of announcement so those who didn't make it actually feel invested in it and not the minority who's not in on the secret.


THIS.
29 Apr 2015, 15:20 PM
#23
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



I'll put it different. It's not about why they did not get it. It's more about why some players, who constantly show lack of knowledge of the game/play only one side (fanboysm) are in.
29 Apr 2015, 15:21 PM
#24
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

Why should they have got in?

Yes, they are very good at this game.
I don't know if they would have given good feedback or not, but I suspect they would have.

But, simply put, being highly ranked in the game shouldn't just get you access to the alpha.

For this to be a valid test of any kind they need a wide range of players that fully explore the skill curve of the community. Putting in too many of the games top players throws this curve hugely.

That is why some of the best guys didn't get in, it's also why some of the worst will have. Almost regardless of what they want to gain from this Alpha they will have needed to recreate a much smaller version of the player base.

TL;DR: Putting in all the top players just because they are top will not make the test, or end product, better - it'll probably make it worse.

Also, the point of the Alpha isn't to showcase things to the community. It's not to make us feel more included (well, that probably isn't it's primary purpose). It's not a reward to the most excited or most loyal players. It's an Alpha that is designed to test the code they have written for whatever has been tested. Its a test to find problems, be they balance, features, abilities, units...etc.

People haven't been betrayed by the alpha, the people in the dark will have been anyway and the people who can't talk about it knew that was the case when they signed up for a closed alpha (or should have).


Well put. While I think that generally, good players give good balance feedback, you do need to take into account your entire player base and just because you're good doesn't mean you will give good feedback. Good players could give bad feedback just like bad players could give good feedback. One's standing within the community should not entitle them to anything, or else the system is inherently unfair to the vast majority.

Plus the alpha is about a lot more than just balance feedback.
29 Apr 2015, 15:23 PM
#25
avatar of Brick Top

Posts: 1163

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Apr 2015, 15:06 PMRMMLz


Not really, we had some drastic changes in the previous alpha. What you say makes sense, but that's not the case here. It was like 5-6 days prior to release and they changed the whole mechanics of OKW. Not that it was a mistake, but come on, changes like that at the final moments?


Im not saying balance or design stuff doesnt happen. Of course it does, just that its not the only or main concern
29 Apr 2015, 15:27 PM
#26
avatar of TheEvilAdventurer

Posts: 188

It should be random as you want a broad selection base, if you just had the best players the game would be boring
29 Apr 2015, 15:29 PM
#27
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657

Why should they have got in?

Yes, they are very good at this game.
I don't know if they would have given good feedback or not, but I suspect they would have.

But, simply put, being highly ranked in the game shouldn't just get you access to the alpha.

For this to be a valid test of any kind they need a wide range of players that fully explore the skill curve of the community. Putting in too many of the games top players throws this curve hugely.

That is why some of the best guys didn't get in, it's also why some of the worst will have. Almost regardless of what they want to gain from this Alpha they will have needed to recreate a much smaller version of the player base.

TL;DR: Putting in all the top players just because they are top will not make the test, or end product, better - it'll probably make it worse.

Also, the point of the Alpha isn't to showcase things to the community. It's not to make us feel more included (well, that probably isn't it's primary purpose). It's not a reward to the most excited or most loyal players. It's an Alpha that is designed to test the code they have written for whatever has been tested. Its a test to find problems, be they balance, features, abilities, units...etc.

People haven't been betrayed by the alpha, the people in the dark will have been anyway and the people who can't talk about it knew that was the case when they signed up for a closed alpha (or should have).


The purpose of this thread is to discuss should the alpha be opened up to more people. Should the majority of top players get their say on the matter, absolutely. I agree you can't put all the top players in the initial alpha, but if they space it out in waves majority of great players will be able to provide feedback. The unintended result of the limited closed alpha is that there will be the people who signed up, and then a couple hours in find out its not for them or the people that play one side and are proven axis/allied fanboys, its a waste of a slot that so many other better people could fill. Call me bitter, but I really don't care. This was more of an awareness thing and based on the alpha for WFA last year, nothing really changed between the alpha and final product except some OKW truck changes.
29 Apr 2015, 15:32 PM
#28
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657



I'll put it different. It's not about why they did not get it. It's more about why some players, who constantly show lack of knowledge of the game/play only one side are in.


Well put, or the people that will show a general lack of interest after the first day or so. Problem is these discussions are biased, most who are in will vote no and those not in will vote yes.
29 Apr 2015, 15:40 PM
#29
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9



The purpose of this thread is to discuss should the alpha be opened up to more people. Should the majority of top players get their say on the matter, absolutely. I agree you can't put all the top players in the initial alpha, but if they space it out in waves majority of great players will be able to provide feedback. The unintended result of the limited closed alpha is that there will be the people who signed up, and then a couple hours in find out its not for them or the people that play one side and are proven axis/allied fanboys, its a waste of a slot that so many other better people could fill. Call me bitter, but I really don't care. This was more of an awareness thing and based on the alpha for WFA last year, nothing really changed between the alpha and final product except some OKW truck changes.


You're right, ofc, (though you may be surprised to know there are some very good players who are disenchanted from past experiences, and have not even applied...)

That said, I hate to see the community split.

29 Apr 2015, 15:44 PM
#30
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657



You're right, ofc, (though you may be surprised to know there are some very good players who are disenchanted from past experiences, and have not even applied...)

That said, I hate to see the community split.



And that is what I was afraid of at the beginning, I knew the community would be split between the haves and the have nots. But in this case such a significant portion of this forums community got in, some are left out in the cold. It's like sitting in a class room where majority of the students are in on a secret and a those few not in are sitting there wondering, "What the hell?"
29 Apr 2015, 15:52 PM
#31
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9



And that is what I was afraid of at the beginning, I knew the community would be split between the haves and the have nots. But in this case such a significant portion of this forums community got in, some are left out in the cold. It's like sitting in a class room where majority of the students are in on a secret and a those few not in sitting there wondering, "What the hell?"


Yeah - and the biggest problem for staff, is that despite the wranglings, we know most of you who are active are a fairly tight bunch - and that those who are in, may feel tempted to assuage their guilt by leaking outside this forum...

I think you should pay attention to the decline text sent to Barton - and follow your logic: this is an Alpha. Therefore, there will be a Beta. i would be amazed, frankly, if the doors are not opened again at some point.

There are several Staff who did not get in - this thing cuts on both sides of the fence.
29 Apr 2015, 16:03 PM
#32
avatar of keithsboredom

Posts: 117

"Alphas" of products are generally more about ironing out Bugs than Balance in my limited experience.

Also as previously stated here people shouldn't feel entitled to anything, you have no idea what relic's goals are for this alpha and so making assumptions that people should get in based on criteria that are unknown to you is pointless.
29 Apr 2015, 16:31 PM
#33
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

Remember truck territory chains?


Oh those days...

I'm afraid the same thing happens with this one. Let's wait and see.

On topic:

It's not such a big deal really, as we know that relic mostly cares about their data analysis, and even with that they take their time to implement changes. So even if the alpha pass was given only to the top 200 players, the result might have been more or less the same. Although most top-ranked players have great knowledge of the game mechanics and might be helpful, I think the results would be the same.
29 Apr 2015, 16:35 PM
#34
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657

"Alphas" of products are generally more about ironing out Bugs than Balance in my limited experience.

Also as previously stated here people shouldn't feel entitled to anything, you have no idea what relic's goals are for this alpha and so making assumptions that people should get in based on criteria that are unknown to you is pointless.


The fact was the criteria was small, there were very few options to choose from. Therefore its not hard to figure out that many applications probably were identical, how do you choose from potential candidates if there really is little difference in application. I may be wrong, but to be fair the applications should have gone more in depth and had a few more options to allow people to distinguish themselves more.
29 Apr 2015, 16:46 PM
#35
avatar of keithsboredom

Posts: 117



The fact was the criteria was small, there were very few options to choose from. Therefore its not hard to figure out that many applications probably were identical, how do you choose from potential candidates if there really is little difference in application. I may be wrong, but to be fair the applications should have gone more in depth and had a few more options to allow people to distinguish themselves more.


Clearly relic only cared about a few criteria and were not interested in filtering through more attributes. Once again it is very possible that additional details were not necessary due to the nature of the information they want to gain from the Alpha.
29 Apr 2015, 16:52 PM
#36
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657



Clearly relic only cared about a few criteria and were not interested in filtering through more attributes. Once again it is very possible that additional details were not necessary due to the nature of the information they want to gain from the Alpha.


A lot of my friends that never played before got in which points to maybe they are trying to get new players (expanding community never hurts :D ). The one thing they should do for those who didn't make the cut is do an announcement to the community and tell us what is being tested. In that case people that leak don't get penalized for saying what it is, the people that got in feel like special butterflies :megusta: , and those who didn't get in get to know what is on the horizon and get hyped for it. It's a win-win situation for everyone then.
29 Apr 2015, 16:57 PM
#37
avatar of Kobunite
Patrion 15

Posts: 615



I think you should pay attention to the decline text sent to Barton - and follow your logic: this is an Alpha. Therefore, there will be a Beta. i would be amazed, frankly, if the doors are not opened again at some point.


This is more of what I was getting at; it's an Alpha. Letting in everyone is against the purpose of an Alpha. It's what an Open Beta is for.
29 Apr 2015, 17:03 PM
#38
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657



This is more of what I was getting at; it's an Alpha. Letting in everyone is against the purpose of an Alpha. It's what an Open Beta is for.


Cynthia said on CoH.com that there are no further plans for additional waves of testing at this point, however that may change in the future.
29 Apr 2015, 17:06 PM
#39
avatar of keithsboredom

Posts: 117



A lot of my friends that never played before got in which points to maybe they are trying to get new players (expanding community never hurts :D ). The one thing they should do for those who didn't make the cut is do an announcement to the community and tell us what is being tested. In that case people that leak don't get penalized for saying what it is, the people that got in feel like special butterflies :megusta: , and those who didn't get in get to know what is on the horizon and get hyped for it. It's a win-win situation for everyone then.


They should be more transparent with their stuff, but that's nothing new with relic unfortunately :(
29 Apr 2015, 17:08 PM
#40
avatar of Existant
Donator 22

Posts: 284

Just imo the last alpha they didn't really take anyone's input to seriously. So you guys have fun with telling relic with what changes they should make in the new alpha, they wont listen to you anyways..
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