Relic, you gonna fix 120mm, or not?

Oh...the great patriotic war on .org; the fanbois fight with tooth and nail ^^

Not sure if making 120mm similar to regular mortar is a good idea. It would be another call-in unit that requies no building.

Since it's heavy mortar i think dmg and range is ok, but it should be more expensive, have no retreat just like AT guns, and get decrewed when only 1 man is alive. This would make it more high risk-high reward unit instead of cheap instant wipe machine, that can retreat with 1 crew member.

dude the whole point is that it is an rng long range automated wipe machine. The other shit is just icing on the cake. No. Nerfing damage or 1 hit kill radius is what needs to be done.

Thats why a cost decrease to 360 would be in order for dropping damage to 80. It still has highest 1 shot kill radius, range, accuracy, no tech, high survivability. Ever play ostheer there arclyte? Or okw vs guard motor?

One of my last games was OKW vs a guy using a 120. He got one early, and near the end of the game (20 minutes or so) I was able to rush it and wipe it with fusiliers, it had around 30 kills and was vet 2. It landed a few good shots, and wiped one volks squad that was down to 3 men and grouped up in cover. If I had to guess I'd say that one 120 had about 300-400% efficiency that game, largely due to not being able to kill it until the end. If I really wanted it dead, I would have made a stuka, jaegers, or fallschirms and I would have been able to hard counter it no problem.

You guys are making it sound like its the old pre-nerf 120 that was dropping laser-guided JDAMs on nazi foreheads. It's good, yea, but I don't think it's overpowered. I routinely see the ostheer mortars at vet 3 with high kill counts as well. I think you're mistaking frustration at its long range with over performance.

One of my last games was OKW vs a guy using a 120. He got one early, and near the end of the game (20 minutes or so) I was able to rush it and wipe it with fusiliers, it had around 30 kills and was vet 2. It landed a few good shots, and wiped one volks squad that was down to 3 men and grouped up in cover. If I had to guess I'd say that one 120 had about 300-400% efficiency that game, largely due to not being able to kill it until the end. If I really wanted it dead, I would have made a stuka, jaegers, or fallschirms and I would have been able to hard counter it no problem.

You guys are making it sound like its the old pre-nerf 120 that was dropping laser-guided JDAMs on nazi foreheads. It's good, yea, but I don't think it's overpowered. I routinely see the ostheer mortars at vet 3 with high kill counts as well. I think you're mistaking frustration at its long range with over performance.

Well, to start, Soviets generally have a higher casualty rate than Ost so comparing the two on kills alone would be incorrect.

I don't know if it is genuinely OP, but it is annoying. Firstly because it can just sit close to base and attack, no micro needed whilst axis player is busy moving all his squads around trying to avoid getting hit.

Secondly, it destroys any kind of positional/tactical engagements with infantry because if you stay in one position too long, odds are you will cop a shell to the face. So the game degenerates into short engagements where you try to do as much damage as possible but then move somewhere else usually en masse. In short, the game just becomes a chaotic mess.

Thirdly, and this is my biggest issue : You cannot kill it without contributing significant resources to the task. I am yet to see a nade kill it, nor have i killed one with a flanking pgren unless it is extremely slow to retreat. The most effective strat is flank with g43 grens and if necessary use sprint but you will need two or three squads to be guaranteed of wipe.

It is an RNG mess, sometimes useless other times a murder machine, but always frustrating. I like the idea of removing retreat the most as well as precision shot. Make it useful, sure, but ffs get rid of the frustration.

Sure, it has to be better than regular mortars because it is in a commander. Mortar HT is also comparable to 120mm in terms of survivability and is mobile as hell.

IMO it's not the 120mm per se but the fact that it is in a commander where almost every single ability is useful as hell. Guards, T34/85, Mark Target, 120mm, Conscripts Repair. That's a bit overkill I guess.

It's just "too" good because early to mid you can rape inf with the mortar and make your enemy bleed MP so much that it's brutally hard for him to do anything against his T34/85s that kill your Tiger with 5 mark target shots while he can barely afford to field any PaK because of that heavy MP drain on a already MP suffering faction.

dude the whole point is that it is an rng long range automated wipe machine. The other shit is just icing on the cake. No. Nerfing damage or 1 hit kill radius is what needs to be done.

Price would also have to go down by 100-120mp, because bit more range on slowest firing mortar in game with (like people scream for) 240mp mortar dmg profile is definitely NOT worth 400mp.

Price would also have to go down by 100-120mp, because bit more range on slowest firing mortar in game with (like people scream for) 240mp mortar dmg profile is definitely NOT worth 400mp.

It's not the slowest firing mortar. It fires the shells in it's barrage rapidly and the barrage cools down quickly.

The issue is that it's just significantly better in every way than every mortar and indirect fire unit in the game with very little draw backs. You can't counter barrage it using Ost mortars because the dude will kill you faster.

Simply reducing it's ROF in barrage mode would be fine, or increasing it's scatter so it's not hitting as accurately as it is now.

there is a lot of shit that needs a fix

indeed, axis fanboy, 120mm need to be nerfed

all players know that

Simply removing the retreat function would be fine in my opinion. It gets away too easily when flanked.

The 120mm mortar is good, but it is not the full health squad wiper machine that some people make it out to be so the lethality is fine in my opinion.

Just make it decrew after going down to 2 men.

You know there are many games that I use the 120mm or fight against a 120mm that it doesn't cause game breaking levels of RNG damage.

However, the 120mm is the one unit that I know, when it does hit, wipes full health squads with relative ease. If it killed 1-3 models and left the last few guys a couple stray bullets from death that would be great. A single shell wiping a full health vetted squad is what gets frustrating.

I can come back from having a couple squads get instantly wiped here and there, but if it happens in too quick a succession or too early on, it can be really annoying.

The crew's survivability is another issue altogether.

Price would also have to go down by 100-120mp, because bit more range on slowest firing mortar in game with (like people scream for) 240mp mortar dmg profile is definitely NOT worth 400mp.

As I have said many times before, making it cost around 350 manpower. Making it sub 300 would make it far too easy to spam mortars and go tier1. Theres currently already enough synergy as is with this mortar call in. With 80 damage it still has highest AOE and accuracy, so its still not suddenly the worst thing ever, even with a slower ROF. Considering the precision strike nerf incoming, I think the 1 man retreat is fine. Seeing as the only real issues with the 120s are its ez wipe capabilities.

For all those people saying "Oh but the german mortar...", have you ever considered that russians have 2 more men per squad than germans? Makes it easier to hit them. They also reinforce alot cheaper per model. Meaning 20 kills on an ost mortar vs 20 kills on a 120mm will not mean the german mortar is super op as shit whatever. It means the 120mm caused a bigger bleed cause germans have higher reinforcement costs.

Dont get me wrong, the 120mm overall is absolutely fine. For its price and the time it arrives on the field, its range and lethality are totally fine. The problem here is that once again relic gave a weapon with big aoe to a faction that has more models per squad. Meaning with the overall rng dice roll bs germans will not only bleed, but theyll lose squads. Be it due to a lucky shot, a couple lucky shots left and right or the occasional precision strike when the cover system decided to clip all 4 models of an mg crew into each others faces.

The problem here is not the lethality and damage and mp bleed that the mortar causes. Hell, it deserves those for its hefty cost. It costs as much as Obers, might aswell perform the part. The dicey rng roll squad wipes are what has to go. Changing its rof or accuracy or whatever wont change the rng squadwipes. It will just make the mortar useless and the only reason you wont see squadwipes is because ppl wont build it anymore since it wont be cost effective.

My only real gripe with the thing is that its the biggest mortar, yet its the hardest to kill. Both stock mortar crews die as soon as only one model is left and they both deal less damage. Then you look at the pack howitzer the americans can field and the crew already runs when theres only 2 ppl left. So why on earth should a mortar with that range and lethality allow for a single guy to get away with the goddamn weapon?

Also, I agree. If the mortar gets its wipe potential nerfed, a potential price decrease is definitely warranted.

Squad wipes>number of kills always if you're trying to compare the 120 mm to wehr turbo mortar. Squad kills is MP draining and momentum killing not to mention loss of vet.

120 mm in 2v2 is broken and uncounterable. It's the only weapon team that you need to kill all 6 models which is lol. Mortar halftrack flames=40 munis for the mortar to retreat 2 steps back to the base reinforce and then move 2 steps outside the base and start wiping squads a mile away (ex: Moscow outskirts, crossing in the woods). Mortar HT flames also sometimes don't cover the circle the mortar is in and it's DPS is mega lol to kill 6 models. OKW stuka just to counter is lol b/c it also doesn't guarantee a simple decrewing if you put the mortar behind a shock blocker.

2v2 soviets one with T2 the other one con spam into two 120mm mortars with guards is literally drag and drop attack move, go get something to eat, call in t34-85s, drag and drop attack move some more, call in IS2, take a piss and come back and click exit game after germans ragequit.

.

Squad wipes>number of kills always if you're trying to compare the 120 mm to wehr turbo mortar. Squad kills is MP draining and momentum killing not to mention loss of vet.

My major problem, you finally break their lines and the mortar fires from the base and wipes your injured squads.

What is the point of paying 400MP for a mortar if it is nerfed? I might as well build the regular mortar then.

^ Nerf the unit, buff the price.

It's not like we want it out of the game (although some fanbois do). Reduce the damage, remove retreat (like ATGs or PackHowi), but keep AoE and range, make it 350 MP.