Relic, you gonna fix 120mm, or not?

To properly nerf the 120mm, it would need to become the mortar version of the DSHK.

Blame Relic for great faction design.

It already has an incredible pop cost, is doctrinal, and costs 400mp to call in. I don't really know what penalties on top of these you propose?

Perhaps all indirects should be nerfed, so that the 120mm can keep it's spot as the best manpower only indirect, without it being too effective.

Make it 4 men, there you go.

What is the counter mr noob ? 5 LeiGs with officer?

Oh wait ..

-Walking Stuka
-Incendiary barrage
-Grw mortar which launch 3 round when 120 launch 1.
-Panzewerfer (yes, panzerwerfer)
-any infantry tactical move

And .. Skill, that word you can't use cause it's a paradox with your noobygameplay.

Proof in your suggestion : "5 leiGs with officer ?" yes, try that you're right

120 need a nerf more? I loled... Can we touch the OKW support gun? Pin from 3-4 screens is kinda OP to me.

Just nerf the range to that of a normal mortal, so it will be finally counterable, it's not really op for anything else.

He never blob, it is one single squad. At least 3 times in that game. If you want the replay, I upload it.

Don't go full retarded if you gonna say moving a Gren / PG towards a 120mm, throwing a nade, is a wrong move.

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  0

  VS

  Siu-King** Porygon

  DAMDAMDAMDAM [LSD]LH2094

  120mm, iWin button

  by: Porygon map: Vaux Farmlands

  1

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Okay, I took your challenge a reviewed your game.

At 6;30 mins, you call in your 1st 120mm. You call in your 2nd at 7;30 mins. At this point your team is holding 3/4's of the map. No manpower float from either of you. Wher player is floating nearly 500 manpower.

At 11;45 Wher player succesfully flanks your 1st 120mm with 2xPGrens, 1x Gren with G43, flame pio and a 222. He takes your 120mm down to 1 man, before you even make it retreat. He then switches target to MG, you retreat your mortar and he doesn't wipe it... Then he attacks your 2nd mortar, and decides to send his gren and 222 only, and as soon as you see them on the map, no surprise, you retreat your unit before they can engage properly. Kills at this point are 9 for 1st 120mm (due to OKW blobbing 2 volks and a falls squad) and 5 for 2nd mortar. Wher player is floating 500mp...

12:30 WHer player floating 650mp, despit only holding 1/4 of the map and no fuels. Your mate (Siu-King) is finding it so easy he is floating 1000mp...

14:30 Both mortars are still at 9 kills and 5 kills respectively, despite being on the field more than half the game. The map situation is still the same as above, yet the wehr player is floating 650 mp, despite having had 2 gren squads, 1 mg42 wiped (not wiped by mortars might I add). Siu-King is now floating 1120 mp, having only been made to retreat one squad in the last 2 minutes of play.


I turned it off here, because it was such a mismatch in skill, I am not surprised you wiped 3 of the whers players squads with 120mm in 30 mins of game time. At this point in the game, the 120mm's had zero wipes, despite one being vet 1. Like I said originally, it was a skill issue. Despite the skill difference, he still managed to flank your mortars, but failed in killing them. His fault, nothing OP about that.

Try again.

It's fine. IF anything leig and the pack need to be buffed up to its standard.

They buffed it's squad wipe potential at medium to long range while reducing it's short range squad wipe potential. Why they thought that made sense is really anyone's guess.

No, they made the short range explosion radius smaller. Basically the one hit kill radius is now smaller while it now has a bigger radius where it does lesser damage.
This made it less likely to oneshot full health squads while making it stronger against squads that are hurt

The long and medium range of the 120mm has not been changed, only the explosion itself

Oh wait ..

-Walking Stuka
-Incendiary barrage
-Grw mortar which launch 3 round when 120 launch 1.
-Panzewerfer (yes, panzerwerfer)
-any infantry tactical move

And .. Skill, that word you can't use cause it's a paradox with your noobygameplay.

Proof in your suggestion : "5 leiGs with officer ?" yes, try that you're right

Did we even play the same game? Probably not.

- Walking Stuka: comes way later then mortar and mortar usually survives direct hit anyway
- Incendiary barrage: you can easily retreat
- Grw mortar which launch 3 round when 120 launch 1: lol lol lol.. You can try that with vet 3 mortar and you will still lose, I tried it with elite commander and 3 vet 3 mortars
- Panzewerfer (yes, panzerwerfer): thats T4 !!! so I have to tech to T4 just to counter mortar??? OMG
- any infantry tactical move: how many squad members it has? its not going to be on the front and you can still retreat when you see flank

Bottom line you dont know what are you talking about.

Make it 4 men, there you go.

I could live with that. I think they'd need to do something about the squad spacing though. Something similar to pack howie/LeiG, would work.

They buffed it's squad wipe potential at medium to long range while reducing it's short range squad wipe potential. Why they thought that made sense is really anyone's guess.

This is not actually what the patch change did. Please find the exact patch note extract below:
Show Spoiler

This change entails that the damage profile of the mortar projectile is changed. Projectiles have an area of effect. The damage distance determines how fast that damage drops off going outwards from the centre. Ergo decreasing damage distance near means that a unit needs to be closer to the centre of the explosion to suffer the full damage.

So in effect what the change actually did, is decrease the area of effect in which the mortar does maximum damage and buff the radius at which medium damage occurs. The lethality at medium to long range (engagement distance) wasn't increased at all.

The 120 wasn't even nerfed its 1 shot kill radius was reduced by what? .03? Or was that the scott. Either way the scott and the 120 honestly werent even nerfed. Almost every game people go guard motor and get the 120 squad wipe machine. I suggest nerfing the 1 shot kill radius a little more and make it so it actually gets decrewed at 1 man.

Germans had 120mm mortars too. But they wouldn't be as effective because they couldn't 1 shot 6 man squads well

The 120 wasn't even nerfed its 1 shot kill radius was reduced by what? .03? Or was that the scott. Either way the scott and the 120 honestly werent even nerfed. Almost every game people go guard motor and get the 120 squad wipe machine. I suggest nerfing the 1 shot kill radius a little more and make it so it actually gets decrewed at 1 man.

Germans had 120mm mortars too. But they wouldn't be as effective because they couldn't 1 shot 6 man squads well

Rifle nade??

2-3 wipes during entire game dont make unit wipe machine.
And even so, rifle nades are wiping sometimes as well, yet I don't see any threads about rifles nades (if we are talking only about wiping, not auto shooting machine which 120 is)

This is not actually what the patch change did. Please find the exact patch note extract below:
Show Spoiler

This change entails that the damage profile of the mortar projectile is changed. Projectiles have an area of effect. The damage distance determines how fast that damage drops off going outwards from the centre. Ergo decreasing damage distance near means that a unit needs to be closer to the centre of the explosion to suffer the full damage.

So in effect what the change actually did, is decrease the area of effect in which the mortar does maximum damage and buff the radius at which medium damage occurs. The lethality at medium to long range (engagement distance) wasn't increased at all.

My mistake comes from the awkward wording in the patch notes thread. Thanks for the clarification.

Rifle nade??
2-3 wipes during entire game dont make unit wipe machine.

Cost munitions, also much shorter range than a mortar. But the squad bunching mechanics are what make it very very good. For every 1 shot the 120 is doing it's reducing entire squads to only 1 or 2 models. It's a extremely efficient killing machine.

The 120 wasn't even nerfed its 1 shot kill radius was reduced by what? .03? Or was that the scott. Either way the scott and the 120 honestly werent even nerfed. Almost every game people go guard motor and get the 120 squad wipe machine. I suggest nerfing the 1 shot kill radius a little more and make it so it actually gets decrewed at 1 man.

The Scott's 1 shot power got decreased by only like 3% or something stupid.

HMC splash damage deals 80 damage at ~1.38 radius before patch.
HMC splash damage deals 80 damage at ~1.35 radius after patch.

120 mm before the patch would one-shot kill any infantry within 1.85 units of the explosion radius. After the patch it will only instant kill around ~1.66 units. This is about a ~10% reduction in instantaneous infantry kills. The increased distance mid will increase incidental non-lethal damage.

The 120 got only about a 10% decrease as well. Not much tbh.

I have enough of those shit.

They said it won't wipe out/one shots squads anymore, but I have the replayS it one shooting full health squads

They said they thought it was OP, and wanted to change it, but well :| instead they made Rocketen a beast now! lol

CoH is much like poker. Everybody thinks their better at it, then they actually are.

I pondered twice on this sentence, but couldn't get that!

The only thing that bugs me, is that 1 man can escape with the 120mm and Soviet/OH can't do this with mortars

If 120mm was an Axis weapon, you would have said : "Work as intented, you allied fanboy can't understand 400MP so expensive, L2P guys some counter exist"

But that's the thing, no counter is availeble in the early-mid part of the game. Wouldn't consider any unit an actual counter to this tbh

They said it won't wipe out/one shots squads anymore, but I have the replayS it one shooting full health squads

They never said it.
Provide a quote.

The issue is that Ost can't counter it because the 81mm mortar is to inaccurate even with counter barrage to kill it before the 120 homes in and wipes it in one shot.

Reducing the 120's crew to 4 would be the best solution.