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We need some 4v4 tourneys/ladders

4v4 Community Needs...
Option Distribution Votes
15%
11%
26%
48%
Total votes: 54
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
22 Apr 2015, 16:33 PM
#1
avatar of Gdot

Posts: 1166 | Subs: 1

Greetings earthlings.
22 Apr 2015, 17:34 PM
#2
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1276

I would like to see this but it would be hard to cast
22 Apr 2015, 18:12 PM
#3
avatar of Schewi

Posts: 175

-The problem is that in a 4v4 tourney a lot of players (around 50% like in previous ones) do not show up. And then with 8 people in one fight, barely any games would be happening. Frustrating for any organizer.
-It is hard to cast.
-There was a 4v4 clan league a while ago. Nothing happend. People were hyped at the start and many signed up, but then almost nobody played.
22 Apr 2015, 18:31 PM
#4
avatar of Gdot

Posts: 1166 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2015, 18:12 PMSchewi
-The problem is that in a 4v4 tourney a lot of players (around 50% like in previous ones) do not show up. And then with 8 people in one fight, barely any games would be happening. Frustrating for any organizer.
-It is hard to cast.
-There was a 4v4 clan league a while ago. Nothing happend. People were hyped at the start and many signed up, but then almost nobody played.



There was a 4v4 clan league? Who knew?

Well, time to close this thread up :(

22 Apr 2015, 18:34 PM
#5
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9

I'll let this stay open a little longer, Gdot, in case somebody has positive thoughts ;)
22 Apr 2015, 18:35 PM
#6
avatar of Gdot

Posts: 1166 | Subs: 1

Wheres my white knight?
22 Apr 2015, 19:50 PM
#7
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Bears could sing up with 3 teams at least :D
22 Apr 2015, 21:11 PM
#8
avatar of sluzbenik

Posts: 879

I support the idea. But you need a prize. Which would be very small split 4 ways anyway. People need motivation to schedule.

Instead, why don't you try a Challenge thread for teams to arrange matches? Romeo's King of the Hill was a smashing success, try that for 4v4. Get a thread going, have a face-off and then challenges...And that way games can be played when people are available. Can't expect 4v4 teams with no motivation to play to be able to manage a regular tourney schedule.

Since 4v4 is all about "notoriety", King of the Hill seems the best solution to me for teams to get their name out there. If it takes off, then you could think about a real tournament.


22 Apr 2015, 21:17 PM
#9
avatar of OMGPOP
Donator 33

Posts: 137 | Subs: 2

The problem is stringent roster rules. Most players in the community have quite a few friends they can pull when a teammate or two is absent. Allowing for up to two substitutes will make it a lot easier to organize games. Last time the league didn't allow for any substitute and my team couldn't play at all because the North Americans and the Europeans were never online at the same time, even though we could probably scraped up 3 entire rosters' worth of subs from our friendlists at any time.
22 Apr 2015, 21:24 PM
#10
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Aye I can't support this just yet. Its been attempted before.
22 Apr 2015, 21:27 PM
#11
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

nightmare to organize. and who would watch 4s?
22 Apr 2015, 22:01 PM
#12
avatar of coh2player

Posts: 1571

It definitely is as the game is not even designed for 4 v 4. (even down to unit descriptions). I think what is most important is a good 'caster' who has effective theories about making 4 v 4 competitive- like a line of principles, strategies, options, etc. I have seen some casters try to do 4 v 4 but they use 1 v 1 logic in their presentation, and the whole thing becomes a wash (mute time). Along side this are players who have schemas of sorts that would make the 4 v 4 look more deliberately strategic rather than just a blob-fest.

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2015, 18:12 PMSchewi
-The problem is that in a 4v4 tourney a lot of players (around 50% like in previous ones) do not show up. And then with 8 people in one fight, barely any games would be happening. Frustrating for any organizer.
-It is hard to cast.
-There was a 4v4 clan league a while ago. Nothing happend. People were hyped at the start and many signed up, but then almost nobody played.
22 Apr 2015, 22:33 PM
#13
avatar of empirescurropt

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

well TAW can bring at least 5 teams ^^ but again will depend on the time so a good time zone will be crucial

but in case there is someone how will cast it and have tourney open i will
bring some guys for sure but i truly think that should be CLAN and random team up !


just my opinion because any clan can change instantly and a different opinions
23 Apr 2015, 13:19 PM
#14
avatar of voltardark

Posts: 976

Here is 2 tools that we always use when making any kind of tournament.

1) Add some back up people who can replace the noshows.

2) To increase show up at the event, just include a Paypal security deposit, refundable at the end of the event. (The size of the depot is related to the grand prize normally,)

They don't show up, they lose the deposit money.(Money is given to the backup(s))

Start small with 4 teams (32 people) and 4 back-up persons .

Just my 2 cents.
23 Apr 2015, 13:31 PM
#15
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

I have had the idea for a new ladder for some time.

I have practiced commenting 4v4 and yes a different mindset is required. (See it in more of a macro than in the regular micro of commenting every engagement.) And also with a ladder there is little need for specific times and casting every last match.

I was going to get everything set up when Im back from holiday may 6th. Ill work on the idea whilst im away.


As for getting people to play, it is very dependent on the people playing. (Peopre rack diciprine)
I have a couple of ideas in mind.
23 Apr 2015, 17:10 PM
#16
avatar of Gdot

Posts: 1166 | Subs: 1

I have had the idea for a new ladder for some time.

I have practiced commenting 4v4 and yes a different mindset is required. (See it in more of a macro than in the regular micro of commenting every engagement.) And also with a ladder there is little need for specific times and casting every last match.

I was going to get everything set up when Im back from holiday may 6th. Ill work on the idea whilst im away.


As for getting people to play, it is very dependent on the people playing. (Peopre rack diciprine)
I have a couple of ideas in mind.


I like the ladder idea.
Games are scheduled at the convenience of both teams.
Rosters could have 7-8 players.
Sort of like the old OGL
Omg OGL.....
23 Apr 2015, 17:44 PM
#17
avatar of Schewi

Posts: 175

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2015, 18:31 PMGdot



There was a 4v4 clan league? Who knew?

Well, time to close this thread up :(



Yup, it was hosted by Kreatiir a year back I think.
23 Apr 2015, 17:51 PM
#18
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2015, 17:44 PMSchewi


Yup, it was hosted by Kreatiir a year back I think.


That is correct. It was started in late august IIRC. But we in Rewind had so much to do, there was like 2 tournies being streamed almost every night and then the ladder on top of it.
We didn't really have time to get it going as much as we wanted.


Formula of the one I have in mind will be based on it but will have a different from
23 Apr 2015, 17:54 PM
#19
avatar of Ohme
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 889 | Subs: 1

Many others have detailed good organizing reasons why this is difficult, but for me, more importantly:

Too many competitive matches will be defined by Jadgtiger/Elefant/Pak43 and the inability to successfully flank due to map design.
23 Apr 2015, 18:10 PM
#20
avatar of somenbjorn

Posts: 923

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Apr 2015, 17:54 PMOhme
Many others have detailed good organizing reasons why this is difficult, but for me, more importantly:

Too many competitive matches will be defined by Jadgtiger/Elefant/Pak43 and the inability to successfully flank due to map design.



This is not really an issue. Maps can be selected from a pool. (Preferebly some good custom maps are included.) And in my personal experience the Jagd/Ele/ISU meta haven't been around the last couple of months.

There are strategies around it.


The problem with a ladder is you can't just say: Here is a ladder, sign up and play against each other. The persons organizing needs to keep constant pressure on people and help people who are passive get games, else it will die down quickly. As well as come up with incentives to get people excited about it.
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