assault engineers

Thompsons are the highest DPS SMG in the game, it would be insanely broken to give every single squad Thompsons.

Thompsons are the highest DPS SMG in the game, it would be insanely broken to give every single squad Thompsons.

having nothing but close range infantry will just leave you open to being cut down at long range especially with MG support. Also im pretty sure only one or two models with actually get the Thompson.

having nothing but close range infantry will just leave you open to being but down at long range especially with MG support. Also im pretty sure only one or two models with actually get the Thompson.

Once you get enough units with close range weapons the enemy can only hold back so many units till you get in close enough range and then they get owned. If you wanted a Thompson rack you would need to either have a high cost per weapon or only allow certain units to get it.

I would be fine with Ass Engines getting a 5th man at Vet 2, but USF really doesn't lack for early game options right now.

Once you get enough units with close range weapons the enemy can only hold back so many units till you get in close enough range and then they get owned. If you wanted a Thompson rack you would need to either have a high cost per weapon or only allow certain units to get it.

I would be fine with Ass Engines getting a 5th man at Vet 2, but USF really doesn't lack for early game options right now.

Because an army of purely PPSH cons is so OP

Because an army of purely PPSH cons is so OP

The conscript PPsH is a little babby gun compared to the Thompson. Thompson does over twice it's DPS.

The reason it's balanced for Para's to get them is because you can't really get that many Para's, but if you could hand out Thompsons to every unit it would be stupid good on smaller maps and ruin Ostheers day even more.

5 men but keep the current dps and current price. Something about squads with grease guns being super elite would kinda bug me. If they had thompsons I could understand. But nope. Also a buff to assault grenadier short or mid range accuracy would be appreciated.

I don't understand. Grease gun is just a stamped metal Thompson with a slower rate of fire that actually weighs less. What's wrong with elite troops using them? they don't have wooden stocks?

I don't understand. Grease gun is just a stamped metal Thompson with a slower rate of fire that actually weighs less. What's wrong with elite troops using them? they don't have wooden stocks?

Gosh, you're right, impressive aesthetic is super important!

Quick, take away all those paratrooper's M1 carbines and give them filigree plastered Lee Enfields instead!

Gosh, you're right, impressive aesthetic is super important!

Quick, take away all those paratrooper's M1 carbines and give them filigree plastered Lee Enfields instead!

That'd get mad in a minute!

Thompsons are the highest DPS SMG in the game, it would be insanely broken to give every single squad Thompsons.

Not at all. Paratroopers (don't use the elite infantry argument, they're buffed up conscripts with nice upgrades) get 4 of them on top of an amazing ability and manage to be underused.

A single Thompson also doesn't have much more DPS than a single BAR so I'm not sure where you're coming from. A Thompson that costs 25 munitions and occupies a slot would be just fine; 2 Thompsons on Riflemen won't make them Shock Troops.

Also the Thompson isn't all that strong, really just similar to Shock Troops' PPSh if not a bit stronger; but any substantial difference comes from Tactical Assault.

I don't understand. Grease gun is just a stamped metal Thompson with a slower rate of fire that actually weighs less. What's wrong with elite troops using them? they don't have wooden stocks?

Thompson is far more iconic and M3 Grease Gun looks rather dinky. Plus it has been an unwritten rule since CoH1.

A single Thompson also doesn't have much more DPS than a single BAR so I'm not sure where you're coming from. A Thompson that costs 25 munitions and occupies a slot would be just fine; 2 Thompsons on Riflemen won't make them Shock Troops.

Make it cost 45-50 muni each

Make it cost 45-50 muni each

They would have to be stronger

They would have to be stronger

No they dont

Make it cost 45-50 muni each

A pair of G43's is 45MU
3 PPSH are 40MU
4 Vehicle Crew Thompsons are 90MU

The Thompson is good but close range upgrades are vastly cheaper than long ranges ones, because long range firepower is just generally more useful and deadly unless you're on Stalingrad.

Hell. An IR STG is only 45 a pop.

A Thompson is nowhere near as deadly as an IR STG.

Honestly, last time Relic buffed Assault engineers they became a beast, those AssEngies blobs were ridiculous.

I think they would be balanced if they shared the same feature Penals have. Flamer critical invulnerability.

This unit is designed to be a glasscanon. They are squishy enough, and the flamethrower crit makes them a walking liability on a 4 man squad. So that flamer crit needs to go away.

With that simple tweak I think they would be balanced.

5 men would make them far too durable for the dps they can dish out. At 280 mp their cost are not in Shock troops or Thompson airborne range. Lastly increasing their Manpower cost will strip the US forces of their only alternate opener.

If they are still lackluster after this tweak, then and only then can we consider a vet 3 squad increase to 5 men IMHO.

If you truly want balance, small incremental changes is much better than overhauling the whole goddamn unit.

I think they would be balanced if they shared the same feature Penals have. Flamer critical invulnerability.

I think all flamethrowers would be very balanced if they had this

STOP TAKING MY 60 MUNITION INVESTMENT FROM ME RELIC

I think all flamethrowers would be very balanced if they had this

STOP TAKING MY 60 MUNITION INVESTMENT FROM ME RELIC

I think the exploding flamethrower critical is fair on pioneers and combat engineers. They are cheap builder units, not really meant for constant frontline combat. The flamer makes them decent at it, but ads a risk factor. the flamer pio strat back in vCoH was so cheesy.

Also, flamer crit is really necessary to balance USF Riflemen while using the rifle company commander. They are the best stock infantry in the game; spamming rifle squads each one equipped with 1 flamer + 1 BAR would make the riflemen blob unstoppable. Especially on urban maps and Lienne Forest.

Picture this, build munition caches, and spam a squad that can throw smoke grenades, the second best frag grenade, can also throw anti-tank grenades while equipped with an assault rifle and a flamer... get real, how do you stop it, smoke the HMG, AT-nade the light vehicles and a-move. At least the flamer crit exploding and popping 3 or 2 models keeps it in line.

Penals lack AT capabilities and have no smoke
Assault engineers are 4 man glasscanon squad.
They are specialized anti-garrison and urban combat units
Immunity to exploding flamethrowers is fair on them.

But we're going off topic here. Lets leave it here.

Lets make one of the strongest offensive unit (and a call in unit) even stronger!! This is a good example of why people argue that low ranked players should not comment on balance.

Armor is now the best 1v1 doctrine by far.

Even if assault engineers spawned without guns, they would still be worth it because of the democharges.

vehicle crews are pretty bad but they are good sometimes.

M10s are beast this patch. You can realistically get 2-3 M10s for every axis vehicle on the field. Just spam them and drive everything over.

Bulldozers are great.

250mm arty has its uses for dislodging axis camp blobs.


In 2v2 airborne is still better i guess.

Even if assault engineers spawned without guns, they would still be worth it because of the democharges.

CEs so OP

...sorry that's just what immediately came to mind for me with that statement. But demo charges are definitely baller.

Lets make one of the strongest offensive unit (and a call in unit) even stronger!! This is a good example of why people argue that low ranked players should not comment on balance.

But of course. A 4 man squad with no armour to speak of and trashy vet facing axis squads designed to murder 6 men squads, armed with an SMG that drops off DPS even faster than a PPSH.

They're just so strong! That's why we see Assault Engie spam all the time and it wrecks face, right? They're so much better than, say, sprinting 5 man Assault Grenadiers, which are also mad OP.

Or sturmpios/pgrens and their great vet and being allowed to do damage at longer than 3 feet.