American Tech

How do ya'll feel about the American teching. I feel its one of the biggest drawbacks to the faction. In some respects something has to be pulled back to compensate for riflemen. I think the American mg, 75mm pack howi, 57mm. All underpowered and there price is not fitting. I believe that is enough compensation for the early power.

I believe that the .50 should be tier 0. The 57mm should unlock after you buy an officer. The pack howi should be unlocked in when you buy any two officers. These should come from the Tier 0 building.

Tell me what you think.

Im sorry what? The USF teching is probaly the best in the game. Teching for them is very rewarding, and very easy to do as well.

Just because some of the units in there are slightly UP (0.50 cal,pak howi, stuart) doesnt mean it needs to be redesigned.

Im sorry what? The USF teching is probaly the best in the game. Teching for them is very rewarding, and very easy to do as well.

Just because some of the units in there are slightly UP (0.50 cal,pak howi, stuart) doesnt mean it needs to be redesigned.

Yeah, definitely feels good.

...but it would be very nice if things were rebalanced such that early-game wasn't just Rifles and T1 wasn't "Cheese your enemy hard so your armour won't arrive later than theirs which you need with your lack of AT". Though the latter part is probably a separate problem that would easily be fixed by making Zookas not feel like a huge waste of your munitions.

You always need anti tank weapons. You alwase need anti infantry weapons. American teching makes you choose. And then makes you choose tanks or whatever heavy weapon you is why para company is so prized.

They even give you're at gun to youre captian. Who is dedicated at unit him self. Cant tell you how many times I went major and needed an at gun but 80 fuel is impossible. Or going captain just because when the fuck don't I need a at gun end game.

Its great I don't need a unit to tech. Its great I get a unit when ever I do tech. That shit is sweet. I agree.

Yeah, definitely feels good.

...but it would be very nice if things were rebalanced such that early-game wasn't just Rifles and T1 wasn't "Cheese your enemy hard so your armour won't arrive later than theirs which you need with your lack of AT". Though the latter part is probably a separate problem that would easily be fixed by making Zookas not feel like a huge waste of your munitions.

Yeah, I agree. A more diverse, slightly downpowered T1 in exchange for better rewards at higher tiers.


American teching is the best in the game (possibly joint best with OKW) as you don't need to tech to it or retreat a unit to build it, and you get a new infantry unit as soon as it unlocks.

But it's true that most of the units it unlocks aren't strong enough or glamorous.

The only real problem I have with American teching is the lack of options before you buy any tiers. It would be nice if you could get at least an MG or something early. Just something other than riflemen. Tier 3 is underwhelming because the pack howitzer and Stuart are underwhelming; I don't feel that's a problem with the tech structure itself.

I say swap the .50 HMG and the Pack Howitzer to create more diversity among Lt. and Cpt. tiers.

The only thing that i would change is to move 50cal t1 and decrease it price

While increasing the price of t2

Thats what rifle upgrades and call in units are for: to cover the gaps from the tiers you chose.

the problem i have with the suggestion is that you only get two units (baring officers) out of a tier if you do that. i do think swapping a source of suppression into T2 would be a good idea, and buffing the stuart would help T2 a lot, but i would prefer another unit to be added to T0 rather than shifting an existing unit into it. there's currently two different mortar teams available which would complement T0 nicely.

the problem i have with the suggestion is that you only get two units (baring officers) out of a tier if you do that. i do think swapping a source of suppression into T2 would be a good idea, and buffing the stuart would help T2 a lot, but i would prefer another unit to be added to T0 rather than shifting an existing unit into it. there's currently two different mortar teams available which would complement T0 nicely.

Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

I don't want to get grenade upgrades to remove HMG teams from building every single timmmmmeeee (Ok not every time, it's certainly not a priority if said HMG team isn't nearby your cutoff or something, but if they are...yeah, you're getting grenades).

I would very much like to see USF get both it's HMG and "mortar" (pack howitzer) in the same tier. This would encourage combined arms, and would give USF a less "blobby feel." That being said, I believe that T0 is far too early for as powerful a unit as the M2HB. If the pack howie, M2HB, and AT gun were all in one tier (and all the light vehicles were in another), I think we could see a lot more interesting dynamic for the US forces. That being said, I don't really see how it would be possible to redesign the teching in such a way without making captain a natural progression between LT and Major, as putting light vehicles in Captain tier at the current cost they have would make the M20 and AAHT come late, which is good for the vs. OST matchup, but may make kubels and snipers quite hard to counter.

The problem with putting all the team weapons in one tier (50cal, howitzer, 57mm) would mean that all the USF light vehicles bar the Scott would be crammed into the other tier- and they all fill the basically same niche with very small differences between each other already.

IMO USF just has too many light vehicles- some kind of squad that could countersnipe, or a even just a regular mortar, would make the faction more interesting as a whole. Or maybe the M20 could be repurposed into more of a light utility vehicle along the lines of the M3 or 221 instead of the bulletproof pseudo light tank that it is now so it infringes less on the M15 and Stuart?

Perhaps swapping the M3 reinforcing halftrack with the M15 (even though it won't actually happen, since doctrinal stuff doesn't change in this manner) would make for a more rounded faction- so there would be just one light tank, the stuart, one reinforce/transport vehicle, the M3, and one lower-impact vehicle available early, the M20, subject to various stat changes to make them fit their role better. Instead of the M20/stuart/M15 all being just bog standard early 'light tanks'.

'Light tank' in this context means bulletproof vehicle.

Or maybe the M20 could be repurposed into more of a light utility vehicle along the lines of the M3 or 221 instead of the bulletproof pseudo light tank that it is now so it infringes less on the M15 and Stuart?

Ain't it already basically a utility vehicle if it doesn't snowball the game shortly after appearing? (granted...rushing it makes it pretty likely it will)

Ain't it already basically a utility vehicle if it doesn't snowball the game shortly after appearing? (granted...rushing it makes it pretty likely it will)

Was editing my post and you replied too quick the way it is now, it's basically a light tank completely immune to bullets (except incendiaries) and with as much HP as any of the other light tanks post-upgrade (and everyone gets the armoured skirts anyway). It's not a utility vehicle, it's a shock/impact vehicle at that stage of the game imo.

Was editing my post and you replied too quick the way it is now, it's basically a light tank completely immune to bullets (except incendiaries) and with as much HP as any of the light tanks post-upgrade (and everyone gets the upgrade). It's not a utility vehicle, it's a shock- light tank like any other at that stage of the game imo.

Well, yes, it certainly is at that point which is why it's capable of snowballing games that hard with a rush.

But on the offhand chance it doesn't for whatever reason, it's mostly just scouting and AT mines because it requires being so close to do worthwhile damage it'll probably be dead the moment AT goes for it. I'd be much more likely to micro an M3A1 into the enemy than an M20 past 15 minutes (Ok I still wouldn't do that one very often either but you get what I mean).

So basically we just need to nerf its initial power and I think it'll do as you asked for just fine!

So basically we just need to nerf its initial power and I think it'll do as you asked for just fine!

Yep, lowering the crazy manpower cost for a light vehicle and making it non-bulletproof would be an interesting start, I think, so you can't just charge head on into OKW units and eat fausts from ostheer and crawl back and duct tape it.

Here's my idea, a pipe dream if you will-

T0 RE / Ambulance
T1 Rifles / M20
T2 50cal / Pack Howi / 57mm
T3 Stuart / M3 HT / Scott
T4 Sherman / Jackson

After T1 OR T2, T3 and T4 are unlocked.

It's a little too similar to COH1, I admit, but I think it gives the best spread of units with the least overlap. not having the M15 would mean no antiair capability, though...

I don't really see how it would be possible to redesign the teching in such a way without making captain a natural progression between LT and Major

i don't see how that's a problem, instead i see it as desirable because it gives USF more options and slows the timing of the late game more to OKH's level. of course doing that without tweaking everyone else would be a problem.

I love US teching

When I play every other faction I have to commit to an opening. With US I don't have to worry about that and rifles are a solid enough unit to get me through any enemy opening.

USF is all about adapting. That's why it's important to try and read your opponent. T1 if your opponent goes heavy infantry and T2 if he is relying on vehicles or defense. If you mess up you can always get bars or zooks to balance it out. And no matter which way you tech you can always get out a decent light vehicle. And T3 has whatever type of armor you may need.

If you really want to spice it up with a different start then that's what the doctrines are for.

Any change would force too many light vehicles into one tech making that worthless since you will only buy one unit. Or make USF early game too strong. There is a reason rifles are slightly stronger then most basic infantry.

I always laugh when teammates ask me what I'm doing, because if I knew I wouldn't be playing USF correctly!