Riflenades vs. Maxims
18 Apr 2015, 12:17 PM
#1
Posts: 589
Does anyone find this to be overkill? 2 rifle nades is basically a guaranteed squad wipe.. not hard to pull off at all. I'm not sure how to balance it better but I think Relic needs to give it a look.
18 Apr 2015, 12:22 PM
#2
Posts: 627
I still find it amusing when people in MG42 threads complain that squads can crawl up through cover and throw grenades when a gren squad doesn't even need to crawl to bleed an opponent 45 to 75 MP and push off an MG.
Rifle nades always were and still are the best grenades in the game. Massive range, no timer, often bugged animations that fire before they kneel.
And more than that, they're one of the best long range combat squads in the game with a grenade that forces any other long range unit out of cover and stops them firing just to make sure they can't possibly compete with the mighty grenadier MG42.
Rifle nades always were and still are the best grenades in the game. Massive range, no timer, often bugged animations that fire before they kneel.
And more than that, they're one of the best long range combat squads in the game with a grenade that forces any other long range unit out of cover and stops them firing just to make sure they can't possibly compete with the mighty grenadier MG42.
18 Apr 2015, 12:44 PM
#3
Posts: 732
Just dont go heavy T2 vs Ostheer?
18 Apr 2015, 13:11 PM
#4
Posts: 770
Does anyone find this to be overkill? 2 rifle nades is basically a guaranteed squad wipe.. not hard to pull off at all. I'm not sure how to balance it better but I think Relic needs to give it a look.
Dont spam maxims and dont leave it unsupported.
18 Apr 2015, 13:15 PM
#5
1 
Posts: 764
Get a spotter for your Maxims?
(same goes for any MG team)
Defend it further with a mine, some stuff nearby to clean up the supressed stuff?
(same goes for any MG team)
Defend it further with a mine, some stuff nearby to clean up the supressed stuff?
18 Apr 2015, 13:17 PM
#6
Posts: 627
Dont spam maxims and dont leave it unsupported.
It's not a matter of spamming maxims
It's a matter of rifle nades having enormous ranges and impact detonation and the maximm being a PoS.
18 Apr 2015, 13:21 PM
#7
9 
Posts: 1094 | Subs: 20
Yet again, it's not the riflenade that is to blame here, but the ridiculous behaviour of team weapons bunching up in cover.
18 Apr 2015, 13:35 PM
#8
3 
Posts: 587
prolem will be solved by reducing maxim crew to 4 men, so we can achieve balance 
18 Apr 2015, 13:38 PM
#9
Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1
Yet again, it's not the riflenade that is to blame here, but the ridiculous behaviour of team weapons bunching up in cover.
This is the major reason, and also the fact that suppression does not reduce throw range. Even if you spot for your maxim, they just crawl a little bit and blow your crew up.
18 Apr 2015, 13:42 PM
#10
Posts: 770
It's not a matter of spamming maxims
It's a matter of rifle nades having enormous ranges and impact detonation and the maximm being a PoS.
So your saying that riflenades counter unsupported maxims the same way as usf smoke+ nade counters unsupported mg's. good i believe we have achieved balance. '
As of the last few patches i rarely see maxim spam and if i see them they are purely used as a supportive weapon. So im not unhappy at the moment.
18 Apr 2015, 14:10 PM
#11
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
So your saying that riflenades counter unsupported maxims the same way as usf smoke+ nade counters unsupported mg's. good i believe we have achieved balance. '
As of the last few patches i rarely see maxim spam and if i see them they are purely used as a supportive weapon. So im not unhappy at the moment.
No he is saying the maxim is hard countered by the unit it is supposed to be used against. You are supposed to spam maxims vs gren spam. That is supposed to punish a player for over investing in front line infantry without any support. Instead Grens just rifle grenade you to death.
Also this unsupported maxim statement makes no sense. So if I see 1 gren squad I should have a script squad and a maxim? How am I going to field more units than him when they cost the same? The maxim can only deal with squads one at a time.
Riflenades are poorly designed and in place because of 6 man weapon crews. Reduce weapon crews to 4 man, buff stats, give grens stick grenade. If you are good enough to flank you will be rewarded with kills. If not sorry you cannot wipe me from outside maxim firing range.
18 Apr 2015, 14:32 PM
#12
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
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No he is saying the maxim is hard countered by the unit it is supposed to be used against. You are supposed to spam maxims vs gren spam. That is supposed to punish a player for over investing in front line infantry without any support. Instead Grens just rifle grenade you to death.
Also this unsupported maxim statement makes no sense. So if I see 1 gren squad I should have a script squad and a maxim? How am I going to field more units than him when they cost the same? The maxim can only deal with squads one at a time.
Riflenades are poorly designed and in place because of 6 man weapon crews. Reduce weapon crews to 4 man, buff stats, give grens stick grenade. If you are good enough to flank you will be rewarded with kills. If not sorry you cannot wipe me from outside maxim firing range.
Its the squad bunching. But anyway the riflenade only 1 shots in extreme circumstances. Usually you're paying 30 munitions just to kill 2-4 guys. And yes you should be supporting your mgs. If you are going to bitch about riflenades then you should also bitch about smoke. Which instead of just killing a few men forces off an mg42 entirely.
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18 Apr 2015, 14:38 PM
#13
Posts: 875 | Subs: 6
The problem isn't just the Riflenade one shotting, it's the rifle nades consistently killing 4 models which then allows the LMG to easily secure the wipe.
Due to the frustrating squad clumping behind cover, the only way you can avoid it is not taking cover. Which is ridiculously unintuitive and then as a result you are more vulnerable to small arms fire. fixing support weapons squad clumping would go a long way and for the post part fix the issue. Either way though the Rifle Grenade is stupidly designed ability that is incredibly punishing with instant detonate and an incredibly high range. It takes no skill to use and results in effortless squad wipes. Coh2 would definitely benefit if Grenades just got the same stick grenades as Volksgrenadiers. If lowering Soviet Crew size is necessary than so be it.
Conscripts landing easy molotovs front the front is also an issue. I think we can all agree that suppression halving grenade range overall would be a great change.
Due to the frustrating squad clumping behind cover, the only way you can avoid it is not taking cover. Which is ridiculously unintuitive and then as a result you are more vulnerable to small arms fire. fixing support weapons squad clumping would go a long way and for the post part fix the issue. Either way though the Rifle Grenade is stupidly designed ability that is incredibly punishing with instant detonate and an incredibly high range. It takes no skill to use and results in effortless squad wipes. Coh2 would definitely benefit if Grenades just got the same stick grenades as Volksgrenadiers. If lowering Soviet Crew size is necessary than so be it.
Conscripts landing easy molotovs front the front is also an issue. I think we can all agree that suppression halving grenade range overall would be a great change.
18 Apr 2015, 14:41 PM
#14
Posts: 627
Which instead of just killing a few men forces off an mg42 entirely.
*Forces an MG42 to walk backwards and set up further behind the smoke
Unless smoke got an instant force retreat modifier like the Sturm Officer's ability and I was never informed of it, anyway.
So your saying that riflenades counter unsupported maxims the same way as usf smoke+ nade counters unsupported mg's. good i believe we have achieved balance.
Not even close. I'm saying that rifle nades allow grens an unparalleled and somewhat absurd ability to counter MG's that no other nation has, because smoke doesn't kill anybody and you can just walk backwards.
Even supported MG's, the rifle nade is so wonderfully long range that it'll pop four of the crew. At which point you risk losing the maxim, or merge and lose its support. From half a mile away.
18 Apr 2015, 15:44 PM
#15
Posts: 770
No he is saying the maxim is hard countered by the unit it is supposed to be used against. You are supposed to spam maxims vs gren spam. That is supposed to punish a player for over investing in front line infantry without any support. Instead Grens just rifle grenade you to death.
Also this unsupported maxim statement makes no sense. So if I see 1 gren squad I should have a script squad and a maxim? How am I going to field more units than him when they cost the same? The maxim can only deal with squads one at a time.
No the HMG's are force multipliers. They are not a counter to infantry by its own.
What makes no sense about unsupported maxims? 1 maxim and 3 script will win from 4 grens. and vice versa.
*Forces an MG42 to walk backwards and set up further behind the smoke
by the time you have repositioned the rifles are in nade range.
18 Apr 2015, 15:56 PM
#16
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
No he is saying the maxim is hard countered by the unit it is supposed to be used against. You are supposed to spam maxims vs gren spam. That is supposed to punish a player for over investing in front line infantry without any support. Instead Grens just rifle grenade you to death.
The maxim, like all other MGs, is a support unit. They are not intended to counter all infantry on the map just through spam. You need to be using it in coordination with other infantry. The soviets will have more squads on the field than ostheer once ostheer spends his manpower to tech up, use them with your support weapons.
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18 Apr 2015, 16:27 PM
#17
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Initially, rifle grenades are kinda tough to work around for HMGs because of their range, but they can be dealt with micro.
At vet 2, rifle grenades become grade-A bullshit that make HMGs more trouble than they're worth.
At vet 2, rifle grenades become grade-A bullshit that make HMGs more trouble than they're worth.
18 Apr 2015, 17:24 PM
#18
Posts: 680
It may be part of a bigger problem but riflenades vs maxims is a joke. Havent built a maxim for a year and wont before this is fixed. Conspam it is.
18 Apr 2015, 17:38 PM
#19
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Yet again, it's not the riflenade that is to blame here, but the ridiculous behaviour of team weapons bunching up in cover.
And veterancy. Having equal or more range than the MG is also a problem.
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And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Apr 2015, 17:54 PM
#20
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
And veterancy. Having equal or more range than the MG is also a problem.
Well, the range of it at vet 2 is still less than the maximum of an HMG. But that range can still let it fire out of the fog of war or be shot at lone HMGs the moment they come into contact, which is absolutely intolerable.
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