What I don't like in OKW

Hey Alexander if something doesn't have a turret it's usually a tank destroyer.
Lack of turret allows for longer cannon which transfers into higher projectile speed and better ballistic properties (accuracy for example). Higher speed of a projectile means better penetrations as per laws of phisics and few other factors.

4) Sturmpios repair vehicals very fast

Sturmpios are 320mp and can´t be spammed as easily as regular Pioniers (200mp) or engineers (180mp). To repair very fast they furthermore require a munitions upgrade. So I expect them to have the fastest repair speed in the game. Even better fighting performance than all other repair troops doesn´t justify a crippled (because less repair units) repair speed.

6) Jagdpanzer has rotates fast sees far moves fast = poor design ( no need support)

The Jagdpanzer IV only becomes a killer with vet2. It´s also the most expensive non doctrinal tank destroyer in the game. It also tends to miss a lot if not static.

Volks should get Mp40s + Faust instead of Shreck.

Jagd UP relic plz buff needs more krupp steehl

KT that bounced everything used to bother me (including lack of side armor, which caused me to lose a lot of tanks just trying to flank).
JagdTiger still difficult in team games. It's awfully expensive and seems to be used less often since patch so not as big of a deal.
Non-doctrinal heavy (KT) bothers me a little. Soviets should get non-doc IS2 and USF get a non-doc Pershing if OK2 gets non-doc KT (which would also add greatly to the variety of Soviet commanders used).

Those problems flow directly from FHQ and Schwerer Panzer Command near by somewhere just little bit back of the middle
There are many posibilities to force infanry to retreat right to the base. Without supports those though guys die so easy.

Maybe you forgot to mention Stuka, KT, and JT and that would include almost the whole army!

Those problems flow directly from FHQ and Schwerer Panzer Command near by somewhere just little bit back of the middle
There are many posibilities to force infanry to retreat right to the base. Without supports those though guys die so easy.

The problem is that OKW was not originally designed as we see them in game. They were truly originally a faction starved of fuel, munitions, and board control. Now they still retain the perks they needed to survive in a game, but they also have more standard game play. OKW is a flawed faction as its core. That is not to say there are not good ideas in OKW, just the overall development of the faction is broken and stupid.

The Flak HQ is what really gets me. To take a fuel point on some maps that it costs the OKW 0 MP to protect. I need to build >600 mp in units just so I can attack. Of course once I try to do this I give up the element of surprise, and should I lose I lose tons of MP and he repairs the HQ in 10 seconds or so.

The problem is that OKW was not originally designed as we see them in game. They were truly originally a faction starved of fuel, munitions, and board control. Now they still retain the perks they needed to survive in a game, but they also have more standard game play. OKW is a flawed faction as its core. That is not to say there are not good ideas in OKW, just the overall development of the faction is broken and stupid.

The Flak HQ is what really gets me. To take a fuel point on some maps that it costs the OKW 0 MP to protect. I need to build >600 mp in units just so I can attack. Of course once I try to do this I give up the element of surprise, and should I lose I lose tons of MP and he repairs the HQ in 10 seconds or so.

Why did OKW go through such a radical redesign in the first place?

Why did OKW go through such a radical redesign in the first place?

Because their original design was, whilst a cool idea, absolutely trash when implemented into CoH2.

A faction designed with enormously powerful units and defenses that only has to hold 1/8th of the map for half an hour to win was boring and stale in 1v1, and utterly ludicrously broken in 4v4. Frankly, the latter problem still exists, largely in part thanks to the lingering faction design elements still present since the beta.
A lot of the reason it was boring was that it was the utter height of the (oddly ahistorical) 'axis win if timer goes past X' philosophy that we've been fighting with Relic to avoid since the beta of CoH2's eastern front. Either you bashed your head against a wall until it fell on you or you wiped them in the first 10 minutes. It's the FHQ gambit's frustrations only represented on an entire faction in multiplayer.

A lot of design choices that seem good for the original concept have just stuck around with no regard for how they function outside of that. And a lot of them are sorely in need of fixing.

Reinforced wire form T0 initial units, for example. When your entire livelihood requires you holding a small chain or territory with a truck in each, preventing ugly flanks is a necessity. Reinforced wire = able to lock down better, good job.

When you're now playing as a normal faction with a faux 'fuel starvation' and units out of the wazoo, it's dumb as all hell, but it remains.

The Schwerer HQ is pretty much the pinnacle of this. Every other faction has to spend to tech and that's that, if you're USF you get a squad rather than a base building. The OKW, as a faction requiring holding a chain of ground to a fuel point, needed a deterrent, an AA option, and a way to hold down their ground.

Now they're just a normal faction with a faux 'fuel limitation', they get to tech and, for free, cut off an enormous swathe of map via choke points to the enemy from their first 80 fuel generated, demanding a huge investment of time and resources to kill even when unsupported unless you have tanks at least as heavy as a T34. And it's dumb as hell.

Allowing your core, front line infantry the best handheld AT weapon in the game and fantastic vet made sense when they were never going to be getting tanks and needed to be able to hold them off their trucks. Now... you get the idea.


OKW suffer from being a faction designed to work a completely different way shoehorned at last minute into a different role without anybody thinking that, maybe, you should take away all the super special toys they were allowed to keep themselves alive with only a tiny area of the map now they can contest it all.

Decent 2v2. Jp laughs on t34 in same way old vet2 stugs did.

Because their original design was, whilst a cool idea, absolutely trash when implemented into CoH2.

A faction designed with enormously powerful units and defenses that only has to hold 1/8th of the map for half an hour to win was boring and stale in 1v1, and utterly ludicrously broken in 4v4. Frankly, the latter problem still exists, largely in part thanks to the lingering faction design elements still present since the beta.
A lot of the reason it was boring was that it was the utter height of the (oddly ahistorical) 'axis win if timer goes past X' philosophy that we've been fighting with Relic to avoid since the beta of CoH2's eastern front. Either you bashed your head against a wall until it fell on you or you wiped them in the first 10 minutes. It's the FHQ gambit's frustrations only represented on an entire faction in multiplayer.

A lot of design choices that seem good for the original concept have just stuck around with no regard for how they function outside of that. And a lot of them are sorely in need of fixing.

Reinforced wire form T0 initial units, for example. When your entire livelihood requires you holding a small chain or territory with a truck in each, preventing ugly flanks is a necessity. Reinforced wire = able to lock down better, good job.

When you're now playing as a normal faction with a faux 'fuel starvation' and units out of the wazoo, it's dumb as all hell, but it remains.

The Schwerer HQ is pretty much the pinnacle of this. Every other faction has to spend to tech and that's that, if you're USF you get a squad rather than a base building. The OKW, as a faction requiring holding a chain of ground to a fuel point, needed a deterrent, an AA option, and a way to hold down their ground.

Now they're just a normal faction with a faux 'fuel limitation', they get to tech and, for free, cut off an enormous swathe of map via choke points to the enemy from their first 80 fuel generated, demanding a huge investment of time and resources to kill even when unsupported unless you have tanks at least as heavy as a T34. And it's dumb as hell.

Allowing your core, front line infantry the best handheld AT weapon in the game and fantastic vet made sense when they were never going to be getting tanks and needed to be able to hold them off their trucks. Now... you get the idea.


OKW suffer from being a faction designed to work a completely different way shoehorned at last minute into a different role without anybody thinking that, maybe, you should take away all the super special toys they were allowed to keep themselves alive with only a tiny area of the map now they can contest it all.

+1 great post reflecting on the correct design flaw in a well written, well organized polite post

Hey Alexander if something doesn't have a turret it's usually a tank destroyer.
Lack of turret allows for longer cannon which transfers into higher projectile speed and better ballistic properties (accuracy for example). Higher speed of a projectile means better penetrations as per laws of phisics and few other factors.

The Soviet turretless vehicles in COH2 are all assault guns, intended to support infantry and should be good at both. Stug's were also assault guns, the Jagdpanzer was a true tank destroyer. The M10 and M36 have turrets but are TD's.

I do get annoyed at the axis fanboys who pull out the "historical accuracy" bs. The real SU76 had a range of around 10 miles. The real Walking Stuka had a range of barely over a mile. Somehow, the axis fanboys who made up the unit stats gave the SU76 a bombardment range of 80 while the Walking Stuka is probably 400 (couldn't find value). Also, the laser-like accuracy of the Walking Stuka is pure bullshit. Rocket artillery in WWII was the least accurate of any type of artillery. It was used because it was really cheap in comparison to conventional artillery.

In a similar move, the SU85's penetration should have been much higher than it is in the game. The 85mm gun was capable of dealing with even a Tiger II. The 85mm gun may not have penetrated the armor but the impact would still often spall pieces of the armor off of the inside of the tank and go through the inside like a shotgun blast. A couple of hits and the crew was likely dead. The gas tanks for the Panther and Tiger II were in the back of the tank and had very little armor covering them.

The Soviet turretless vehicles in COH2 are all assault guns, intended to support infantry and should be good at both. Stug's were also assault guns, the Jagdpanzer was a true tank destroyer. The M10 and M36 have turrets but are TD's.

I do get annoyed at the axis fanboys who pull out the "historical accuracy" bs. The real SU76 had a range of around 10 miles. The real Walking Stuka had a range of barely over a mile. Somehow, the axis fanboys who made up the unit stats gave the SU76 a bombardment range of 80 while the Walking Stuka is probably 400 (couldn't find value). Also, the laser-like accuracy of the Walking Stuka is pure bullshit. Rocket artillery in WWII was the least accurate of any type of artillery. It was used because it was really cheap in comparison to conventional artillery.

In a similar move, the SU85's penetration should have been much higher than it is in the game. The 85mm gun was capable of dealing with even a Tiger II. The 85mm gun may not have penetrated the armor but the impact would still often spall pieces of the armor off of the inside of the tank and go through the inside like a shotgun blast. A couple of hits and the crew was likely dead. The gas tanks for the Panther and Tiger II were in the back of the tank and had very little armor covering them.

Thank you ! Omg you're so right ! waited this like jesus back

In a similar move, the SU85's penetration should have been much higher than it is in the game.

And the Panther could take out T-34s from 3km away. KVs were easily defeated by Panzer IVs and StuGs from a km. Yet that´s not ingame.

The 85mm gun was capable of dealing with even a Tiger II. The 85mm gun may not have penetrated the armor but the impact would still often spall pieces of the armor off of the inside of the tank and go through the inside like a shotgun blast. A couple of hits and the crew was likely dead.

85mms defeating KTs now? Maybe from the sides, definitely not from the front. Even Panthers with almost half the armor bounced 85mm without a problem. You are maybe referring to a Russian testing, where they would shoot some hundreds of shells on a plate until it succumbs.

In this game Russian armor gets off pretty well considering the disastrous losses they actually took. Losses so high that they would totally cripple the tank arm of any other nation.

Even Panthers with almost half the armor bounced 85mm without a problem

If it hit it at exactly 90 degrees to the advertised slope with a solid AP shell? Sure.

APHEBC/APCR fired towards the lower half of the frontal plate to induce any sort of angle at all quickly rendered it useless.

Panther armour is thin, bro. Very thin. Just slanted.

KT is indeed a much harder job to take out with 85mm's, but hardly impossible.

I literally proved you wrong 2 posts ago, your the one making outrageous claims. Some evidence would be nice.

It get's no acceleration bonus from vet, it gets the same speed bonus and rotation bonus as the SU-85 does and it starts less of those 2. The SU-85 will outclass the vet 0 JPIV in mobility at vet 0, and the vet 5 JPIV at Vet 3 in mobility.

The SU-85 has greater pen and reload than the JPIV while also having greater mobility and cone of fire. The JPIV has greater armor and better combat veterancy.

I'm starting to think you use the Jp4 like Jesulin Kappa. Doesn't utilize range, rushes it in as close as possible to the point where cons flank and at nade its ass. I would take a JP4 over an su-85 any day and I'd rather have more armor than reload. Starting at vet 1 that thing is even more potent than an su-85 (camo in the middle of a road or use it to save yourself from an at nade.)

Hey Alexander if something doesn't have a turret it's usually a tank destroyer.
Lack of turret allows for longer cannon which transfers into higher projectile speed and better ballistic properties (accuracy for example). Higher speed of a projectile means better penetrations as per laws of phisics and few other factors.

I never said it wasn't a TD.

I'm starting to think you use the Jp4 like Jesulin Kappa. Doesn't utilize range, rushes it in as close as possible to the point where cons flank and at nade its ass. I would take a JP4 over an su-85 any day and I'd rather have more armor than reload. Starting at vet 1 that thing is even more potent than an su-85 (camo in the middle of a road or use it to save yourself from an at nade.)

I utilize it's range, but you just highlighted what makes it better than the SU-85 in some scenarios. But you can normally always get more SU-85s than your opponent can get JPIV's.

Both are good units, idk why everyone says the JPIV has no weakness's.

Its have 60 range, it have no turret, it have extended sight, it shoots fast with good penetration, it can't fight infantry.

We are talking CoH2, it is a tank destroyer, not a medium tank. If you want to keep calling it medium tank, then SU-85 and StuG are one as well in CoH2. But thanks for great laugh right at the morning, now I don't need at the morning and my fiancee asks why I have burst with laughter all of sudden!

Yes those are all medium tanks. But if you just want to compare and contrast the guns the SU-85 has better penetration and ROF. By only a little in the pen dept, but a fair amount in the ROF dept.

Still ends up being incomparably superior and 60 range non turreted TDs aren't exactly meant or even need to be mobile.

So why does the Jackson have 60 range with a turret and is the most mobile TD in the game other than the Wolverine?

Jagd UP relic plz buff needs more krupp steehl

Nobody ever said the Jadgpanzer was UP.

I never said it wasn't a TD.

You'd make a good politician

I didn't say that u were a bad player

But me stomping you proves that u are far from the "great" player u want many of us to believe in ur well written shit posts...


Almost pulled my hair out at u saying that the Jackson is second most mobile TD

Completely ignoring panther

(inb4 u say its a not a dedicated TD cus it has mg's. Whilst ignoring Stug)

Your right the Panther isn't a TD, it doesn't have the range of one. It's a tank hunter friend.

And I do come from a family of politicians!

Your right the Panther isn't a TD, it doesn't have the range of one. It's a tank hunter friend.

And I do come from a family of politicians!

MAkes sense that u can shit post to 2k in just a month

Nice to know that politicians are bred fact twisters and liars. (based on ur logic, im not calling u a liar )

Panther isnt a tank hunter Jager in German means hunter

Germany made Jagdpanther pacifically to kill hunt and kill tanks same with Elephant ( both have Jager in their name)

a panther's partial role was to kill tanks

Thats just like trying to say an F-18 hornet is a dedicated air intercept fighter. This makes no sense since it is a multi-role fighter


You ever get tired of being wrong?