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Conversion abilities destroy flow

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Alexzandvar
16 Apr 2015, 15:51 PM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 14:12 PMQueenRatchet123


This is the same thing as a climate change denier 3's and 4's require very less skill, thus u have no "expertise" or leg to stand on..


You have never played any high level AT 3's or 4's. It does require excellent coordination and high amounts of micro, you wouldn't know because you have never played with a high ranked AT. Similarly I couldn't comment on how much skill is required for 1's!

unless you are carrying your team and at two or more places at once during the whole game, i cant find tough 3v3+ game harder than tough 2v2 game. i can't understand how you know what is required in "high levels" 3v3+. you dont really have the rank.

and looking at 3v3+ random ladder in order of streak, you can clearly see an aberration when comparing allies streak and axis streak. if you lose as axis in 3v3+, you really have nothing else to blame except for yourself and the team you are in.


There is a reason I specified AT's, because the tactics you can pull off with AT's is far more wide and in depth than what you can do with randoms, because, well it's fucking randoms.

I have a lot of 3's and 4's AT's, and speaking from experience nothing is harder than fighting an enemy that knows what they are doing and is coordinated because they will abuse everything they can to win, and they will have just as good micro as any other high ranked player. Having one bad player on you AT is a death sentence, as your team is only a strong as it's weakest link.

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QueenRatchet123
16 Apr 2015, 15:57 PM
#42
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 15:51 PMAlexzandvar


You have never played any high level AT 3's or 4's. It does require excellent coordination and high amounts of micro, you wouldn't know because you have never played with a high ranked AT. Similarly I couldn't comment on how much skill is required for 1's!



I have played at high level 3's and 4's games before

Fact still remains the same one's require more skill. There is no way around that fact

I proved that by beating u. the game mechanics did not change (Still 500 vp's). Just u were punished for blobbing. 1's and 2's are the only modes where a skill gap is visually present. 3's and 4's are modes were u can rely on ur teamates to carry u.

I could tell u were not used to doing everything on ur own becuase u are a big team player.

The difference between 1's and 4's is obvious

If u are a big team comp stomp player attempts enter a game mode where a skill gap matters (1v1's) u literally get stomped 500-0.

Place me in a 4v4 where im the only ones player. i guarantee im getting the highest score by a sizable margin
Trust me when i say the best 4v4 teams ive played with have been decent 1v1 players

EDIT: If the way u played is considered "high level" in the big teams modes. i don't know what to say...
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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Alexzandvar
16 Apr 2015, 16:03 PM
#43
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 15:57 PMQueenRatchet123


I have played at high level 3's and 4's games before

Fact still remains the same one's require more skill. There is no way around that fact

I proved that by beating u. the game mechanics did not change (Still 500 vp's). Just u were punished for blobbing. 1's and 2's are the only modes where a skill gap is visually present. 3's and 4's are modes were u can rely on ur teamates to carry u.

I could tell u were not used to doing everything on ur own becuase u are a big team player.

The difference between 1's and 4's is obvious

If u are a big team comp stomp player attempts enter a game mode where a skill gap matters (1v1's) u literally get stomped 500-0.

Place me in a 4v4 where im the only ones player. i guarantee im getting the highest score by a sizable margin
Trust me when i say the best 4v4 teams ive played with have been decent 1v1 players


Why do you say this stuff when it takes literally half a second to click your player card to see your talking out of your ass when you say that you have lots of experience in 3's and 4's AT's dude.

1's require a different kind of skill than 3's and 4's do. In 1's your not coordinating with anyone, your not complimenting each others builds, your facing less units and your facing less diverse opponents.

I'm a big team game player because I have lots of friends and we enjoy shooting the bull and kicking ass together, Iv ventured more into smaller games modes as time goes on to make my self better rounded as a player, I suggest you do the same. Queen.
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QueenRatchet123
16 Apr 2015, 16:15 PM
#44
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 16:03 PMAlexzandvar


Why do you say this stuff when it takes literally half a second to click your player card to see your talking out of your ass when you say that you have lots of experience in 3's and 4's AT's dude.

1's require a different kind of skill than 3's and 4's do. In 1's your not coordinating with anyone, your not complimenting each others builds, your facing less units and your facing less diverse opponents.

I'm a big team game player because I have lots of friends and we enjoy shooting the bull and kicking ass together, Iv ventured more into smaller games modes as time goes on to make my self better rounded as a player, I suggest you do the same. Queen.


Ive faced top 100 4v4 teams before. I have no reason to lie

1's dont require a different kind of skill. It requires MORE skill. Sorry to break it to u.

About the AT's it doesn't matter how good the allied team is. Axis always have the clear and obvious advantage. I have played enough 4's to know that.

There is no such thing as complimenting builds as axis in 4's. U have better stock units most of the time and there is no such thing as mid-game. It goes from early game to late game. Where allies lose in. Its obvious. Look at any big team player and compare the win rates and streaks to the allied ones. Its not balanced even in AT's.

Axis don't get punished in 4's. while allies will get punished hard. I dont know wat AT u were playing but i guarantee they were not as good as u want them to sound. They were maybe tough for u, cus the way u played in that 1v1 proves u have soo much to learn about this game that a 3v3 and 4v4 will never teach u.
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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Alexzandvar
16 Apr 2015, 16:22 PM
#45
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 16:15 PMQueenRatchet123


Ive faced top 100 4v4 teams before. I have no reason to lie

1's dont require a different kind of skill. It requires MORE skill. Sorry to break it to u.

About the AT's it doesn't matter how good the allied team is. Axis always have the clear and obvious advantage. I have played enough 4's to know that.

There is no such thing as complimenting builds as axis in 4's. U have better stock units most of the time and there is no such thing as mid-game. It goes from early game to late game. Where allies lose in. Its obvious. Look at any big team player and compare the win rates and streaks to the allied ones. Its not balanced even in AT's.

Axis don't get punished in 4's. while allies will get punished hard. I dont know wat AT u were playing but i guarantee they were not as good as u want them to sound. They were maybe tough for u, cus the way u played in that 1v1 proves u have soo much to learn about this game that a 3v3 and 4v4 will never teach u.


It doesn't show on your player card and unless you have some custom game replays to show case your talking out of your ass when you insist that 3's and 4's require 0 effort at all. Soviets are amazing in team games just like USF, both are viable for all game modes. You can make a 3's or 4's AT using either all USF or all Soviets and make it work, you can't do that with all OKW or all Ostheer. When playing Axis you have to ensure the Ostheer team mates are support the OKW players.

Allies will get punished hard if your a retard spamming basic shermans and using non-LMG or non-bar rifle men, Allies will get punished hard if you spam T34/76's or SU-85s. Similarly Axis will get punished if they spam PIV's or StuG's as well as un-upgraded no-vet volks.

Much like how my strat for bigger game modes didn't work in 1v1, your strat for 1v1 would get fucking smashed in a 3v3 or 4v4.
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GiaA
16 Apr 2015, 16:24 PM
#46
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1's dont require a different kind of skill. It requires MORE skill. Sorry to break it to u.


This statement doesn't make any sense. It's the same game (CoH2) and the amount of skill a gamemode requires depends on how good your opponents are. 1v1 attracts good players that's why it's harder to win in that mode but saying it requires more skill is wrong.
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QueenRatchet123
16 Apr 2015, 16:29 PM
#47
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 16:24 PMGiaA


This statement doesn't make any sense. It's the same game (CoH2) and the amount of skill a gamemode requires depends on how good your opponents are. 1v1 attracts good players that's why it's harder to win in that mode but saying it requires more skill is wrong.


You are probably right, but i still think, as u said, since better players play it. you learn more from it.

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 16:22 PMAlexzandvar

Soviets are amazing in team games just like USF, both are viable for all game modes.



Prove it and get to top 100 as allies
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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Alexzandvar
16 Apr 2015, 16:31 PM
#48
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 16:29 PMQueenRatchet123


Prove it and get to top 100 as allies


Already done.
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QueenRatchet123
16 Apr 2015, 16:32 PM
#49
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 16:31 PMAlexzandvar


Already done.


GG :guyokay:

must have been ez crusshing them randumbs
jump backJump back to quoted post17 Aug 2015, 14:01 PMJohnnyB

There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
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Alexzandvar
16 Apr 2015, 16:42 PM
#50
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 16:32 PMQueenRatchet123


GG :guyokay:

must have been ez crusshing them randumbs


Must be heavy carrying those goal posts so far.
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Imagelessbean
16 Apr 2015, 16:50 PM
#51
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Ratchet you know better, ignore Alex.

Alex sometimes its best not to post.

Back to OP: Resource conversions are inherently stupid. It takes away a fundamental leg of the game, resource denial by cut offs. If we must have them they have to be adjusted for team games. It is not right that resources are so abundant in team games and these abilities have few downsides. Luft supplying fuel to OKW is out right game breaking and should not be possible in team games. Try beating an intelligent OKW player that can suddenly go Stuka and AT, or get double Stuka before you get your first T34.
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Fridod
16 Apr 2015, 18:36 PM
#52
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About that whole skill discussion in 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4:

Sorry to "break it to you", but he is right telling you those modes rely on different kind of skills.

There are so many good and very good 1v1 players who can't pull off anything in teamgames. That's because teamgames require TEAMplay. I don't want to generalize, but most 1v1 "pros" are not exactly what you would call 2v2 "pros".

1v1 depends on a lot of APM (the reason why I dislike this mode) whereas teamgames require a lot of tactical overview, strategic thinking, co-operating with your mates, etc.
Sure, these things (apart from the mate thing) are essential for 1v1, too, but the focus is different.

No TLDR version, sorry.

Sorry for going OT here.
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Vuther
16 Apr 2015, 18:46 PM
#53
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 11:34 AMJohnnyB


I just looove this "Allied bullshit is allowed but Axis' bullshit not" crap.

Well, tell me what you can do about Fuel->Muni save for "Completely cut them off from their fuel."

Which is to say, basically win the game.

Soviets' Supply Drop requires a slow-as-hell giant-ass plane come from the enemy's base to get to your base that can quickly be invalidated by an OKW T3, Fuel->Muni says "Thanks for the fuel, enjoy your munitions."
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CookiezNcreem
16 Apr 2015, 18:56 PM
#54
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lol this thread escated into a e-dick measuring contest real quick
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pigsoup
17 Apr 2015, 04:03 AM
#55
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i do not know how and where this thread got turned and twisted, but OP covers resource manipulation with specific mentions to CAS and other commanders that just keep cropping up again and again.



















Playercard of Bo-Bobby Lion

3v3: Pstreak: - 3
3v3: Pstreak: + 8
3v3: Pstreak: - 3
3v3: Pstreak: - 2


















Playercard of Bo-Bobby Lion

3v3: Pstreak: - 3
2v2: Pstreak: - 2with Ohme
2v2: Pstreak: + 1with Ohme
2v2: Pstreak: + 3with Medman






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GiaA
17 Apr 2015, 05:42 AM
#56
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 18:36 PMFridod
About that whole skill discussion in 1v1 or 2v2 or 3v3 or 4v4:

Sorry to "break it to you", but he is right telling you those modes rely on different kind of skills.

There are so many good and very good 1v1 players who can't pull off anything in teamgames. That's because teamgames require TEAMplay. I don't want to generalize, but most 1v1 "pros" are not exactly what you would call 2v2 "pros".

1v1 depends on a lot of APM (the reason why I dislike this mode) whereas teamgames require a lot of tactical overview, strategic thinking, co-operating with your mates, etc.
Sure, these things (apart from the mate thing) are essential for 1v1, too, but the focus is different.

No TLDR version, sorry.

Sorry for going OT here.


Not true, if good 1v1 players played 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 they would dominate those modes as well. This has been proven everytime 2 1v1 players teamed up. (Siberian+VonIvan, Ciez+OMGPop etc, Jesulin dominated in 2v2 just like in 1v1). The only aspect that only exists in team games is teamplay all the other things you mentioned are just as important in 1v1.
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JohnnyB
17 Apr 2015, 07:24 AM
#57
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 18:46 PMVuther

Well, tell me what you can do about Fuel->Muni save for "Completely cut them off from their fuel."



Gladly. Build fuel caches and do what allied do best: lots of medium tanks. AS SOVIET, you have even more options, they have excellent balistics - just for instance, Katiusha does ring any bell? Ya know, you won't expect vehicles from CAS users. Not more than one tank maybe. And if you tell me that with your T34s / shermanns + balistics/mines you cannot nullify Ostheer's blob, no matter how many shrecks it has, and that you cannot retain the capping advantage, then the issue is not the CAS doctrine, sorry for that.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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Katitof
17 Apr 2015, 07:36 AM
#58
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Apr 2015, 16:31 PMAlexzandvar


Already done.

Yea, with Porygon and Siu-king.
I played against them multiple times, they are way above your league so...

Carried hard?

Why won't you do that for a mode where its impossible to carry you and show us how it really is instead of teaming up of d-bag but good player?
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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JohnnyB
17 Apr 2015, 07:50 AM
#59
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2015, 07:36 AMKatitof

Yea, with Porygon and Siu-king.
I played against them multiple times, they are way above your league so...

Carried hard?

Why won't you do that for a mode where its impossible to carry you and show us how it really is instead of teaming up of d-bag but good player?


He allready earned respect answering to 2 challanges here which I didn't see you (or me) doing, so he has the right to post his opinions or write anything he wants. You don't like it, don't read it, it's simple.

P.S. It should be a pinned thread around here where players can challange each other. Due to my program, I can only be sure that I can answer to such things during weekends but I'd love to. I'm not so conceited not to admit when someone outplayed me and I think it would be fun. You can even find team mates in your opponents :D.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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Katitof
17 Apr 2015, 07:57 AM
#60
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Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Apr 2015, 07:50 AMJohnnyB


He allready earned respect answering to 2 challanges here which I didn't see you (or me) doing, so he has the right to post his opinions or write anything he wants. You don't like it, don't read it, it's simple.

Yes, kudos for him, I'm not saying word against that.
But he have also shown to everyone the level of skill he presents, he can beat a bad player who steps in his own molos and incendiary, but looses to 200-400 rank player without even contest, if that doesn't prove that he got carried hard, then I don't know what will, ESPECIALLY considering the ranks, game modes and experience with all factions of team who carried him.

He'll get to top 100 or even 200 by himself or with team mates of similar skill to his, I'll accept it.
He gets carried by players who are actually on top 100-200 level, no, that won't convince anyone who isn't axis die hard fanboy.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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