new article, enjoy:
Balancing Multiplayer Games – Opportunity, Power and Relativity
http://pqumsieh.com/2015/04/12/balancing-multiplayer-games-opporunity-power-relativity/
Pqmiesh Blog: Balancing Multiplayer Games
15 Apr 2015, 19:01 PM
#1
Posts: 2238 | Subs: 15
15 Apr 2015, 19:03 PM
#2
Posts: 476
What is his job nowadays?
15 Apr 2015, 19:15 PM
#3
Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2
He thinks at a very tactical level. Before even getting into the math there are "other" game balance design considerations. What is the units intended role within the game?
My favorite game balancers are the ones at CCP games. They always start with the role question first and balance from there.
An example of community engagement BEFORE the patch is published
here is an example, there are many others.
My favorite game balancers are the ones at CCP games. They always start with the role question first and balance from there.
An example of community engagement BEFORE the patch is published
here is an example, there are many others.
15 Apr 2015, 20:00 PM
#4
Posts: 976
Nice analysis,
But terrain, buildings will often make a single unit more powerful. Also one unit is easier to micromanage too.
A lone Tiger hidden between buildings will be a lot harder to flank meaning he will be harder to be destroyed because of it's frontal armor. But 2-3 hidden Sherman with be killed easily from a frontal assault by any Tiger.
Balance cannot only be achieve with numbers, where those numbers will be used often matter the most.
But terrain, buildings will often make a single unit more powerful. Also one unit is easier to micromanage too.
A lone Tiger hidden between buildings will be a lot harder to flank meaning he will be harder to be destroyed because of it's frontal armor. But 2-3 hidden Sherman with be killed easily from a frontal assault by any Tiger.
Balance cannot only be achieve with numbers, where those numbers will be used often matter the most.
15 Apr 2015, 20:10 PM
#5
Posts: 862
Nice analysis,
But terrain, buildings will often make a single unit more powerful. Also one unit is easier to micromanage too.
A lone Tiger hidden between buildings will be a lot harder to flank meaning he will be harder to be destroyed because of it's frontal armor. But 2-3 hidden Sherman with be killed easily from a frontal assault by any Tiger.
Balance cannot only be achieve with numbers, where those numbers will be used often matter the most.
This is key. 2-3 times the units are not 2-3 times harder to micro. The difficulty is greater than that. Even assuming you know what you want to do you have to translate it to the game and that means APM. As you add units and tasks the numbers of APM goes up but your abilities generally don't, so each additional unit and its required APMs means you aren't doing something else or has already exceeded your abilites. The single uber-unit doesn't put this same tax on your abilities.
The other response is to make the 2-3 (or more) units equal to the uber unit but without additional micro.... but that is how you get blobbing.
Someone used the example of CCP and EvE which is supposed to be the penultimate spreadsheet game, but spreadsheets don't define their end-product, balance and meta does.
15 Apr 2015, 20:14 PM
#6
Posts: 862
This is key. 2-3 times the units are not 2-3 times harder to micro. The difficulty is greater than that. Even assuming you know what you want to do you have to translate it to the game and that means APM. As you add units and tasks the numbers of APM goes up but your abilities generally don't, so each additional unit and its required APMs means you aren't doing something else or has already exceeded your abilites. The single uber-unit doesn't put this same tax on your abilities.
The other response is to make the 2-3 (or more) units equal to the uber unit but without additional micro.... but that is how you get blobbing.
Someone used the example of CCP and EvE which is supposed to be the penultimate spreadsheet game, but spreadsheets don't define their end-product, balance and meta does.
I should add that this focus on "difference" exhibits what could be a lack of imagination.
The m10 and the StuG of COH1 about on par in cost and utility. One came out of an earlier and cheaper tier, didn't have a turret but had really strong frontal armor, the other was much more weakly armored but with a turret. Two similar units yet very different in feel and without imposing a huge micro discrepancy.
16 Apr 2015, 07:11 AM
#7
Posts: 521
I should add that this focus on "difference" exhibits what could be a lack of imagination.
The m10 and the StuG of COH1 about on par in cost and utility. One came out of an earlier and cheaper tier, didn't have a turret but had really strong frontal armor, the other was much more weakly armored but with a turret. Two similar units yet very different in feel and without imposing a huge micro discrepancy.
StuG`s only advantage is Target Weak Point as of now, contrary to popular belief, it is purely AT as well.
16 Apr 2015, 08:14 AM
#8
Posts: 923
He thinks at a very tactical level. Before even getting into the math there are "other" game balance design considerations. What is the units intended role within the game?
My favorite game balancers are the ones at CCP games. They always start with the role question first and balance from there.
An example of community engagement BEFORE the patch is published
here is an example, there are many others.
I suspect this lack of coordination between role and balance. Role is a game design aspect and balance, is well a balance thing.
You need a good coordination between game design teams and balance design team.
I do remember reading an article on his blog a while back talking about the problem of game designers and balance designers not being synced. I got the feeling he was talking about his experience at relic.
16 Apr 2015, 20:32 PM
#9
Posts: 862
I still think his numerical explanation illuminates what is wrong. The numbers aren't the balance... the "feel" is the balance. There are too many variables to use pure numbers to balance. I would think you could use theoretical numbers like that AS A START point. Then you tweak it from there.
But to end it at the spreadsheet without accounting for terrain, front/rear armors, APM load, the types of supporting units available (mines, shreks, ATGs, etc.) is ignoring the "how it is used" of a unit. You start there and tweak until it feels right.
But I can see how spreadsheet balancing might lead to the problems (and blobbing) in COH balance.
But to end it at the spreadsheet without accounting for terrain, front/rear armors, APM load, the types of supporting units available (mines, shreks, ATGs, etc.) is ignoring the "how it is used" of a unit. You start there and tweak until it feels right.
But I can see how spreadsheet balancing might lead to the problems (and blobbing) in COH balance.
I suspect this lack of coordination between role and balance. Role is a game design aspect and balance, is well a balance thing.
You need a good coordination between game design teams and balance design team.
I do remember reading an article on his blog a while back talking about the problem of game designers and balance designers not being synced. I got the feeling he was talking about his experience at relic.
17 Apr 2015, 01:42 AM
#10
8
Posts: 2470
StuG`s only advantage is Target Weak Point as of now, contrary to popular belief, it is purely AT as well.
it's not purely AT; it'll hit a model every 4 or 5 shots. not very useful though.
17 Apr 2015, 08:38 AM
#11
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
it's not purely AT; it'll hit a model every 4 or 5 shots. not very useful though.
So we can safely say that a glass canon non turreted tank that kill one model every 4 or 5 shots is a purely AT tank
17 Apr 2015, 12:33 PM
#12
Posts: 344
And then Relic add current criticals hits mechanic.
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