okw munis cost

So what rifles can be used or not aren't based on animations but an arbitrary limit? Jesus Relic, excuses rapidly running out.

G43s and Kars have different animation.
The more you know.

G43s and Kars have different animation.
The more you know.

So what rifles can be used or not aren't based on animations but an arbitrary limit? Jesus Relic, excuses rapidly running out.

The point remains, animations aren't the issue/limiting factor.

Negative.

I hate my memory

The point remains, animations aren't the issue/limiting factor.

Well they are to modders unless they want their units to be shooting with invisible guns.

Really any sort of AI upgrade would be good, just getting better KAR's seems silly when the OKW focused very heavily on widespread use of automatic weaponry, which should be better reflected in game.

That heavy use of automatic weapons already is represented by other units.

Volksgrenadiers didn't use a lot of automatic weapons IRL and they don't necessarily have to have automatic weapons ingame.

A damage buff to their Kars seems like the only way since they can't use StGs or G43s.

It's also the best choice gmeplay-wise. Increasing their rifle damage to 14 won't change their intended role as defensive/meatshield units.

They'd be slightly more lethal. Comparable to vanilla Grens.

Volksgrenadiers didn't use a lot of automatic weapons IRL and they don't necessarily have to have automatic weapons ingame.

Actually, they were supposed to. The idea was to compensate for the flagging manpower with a higher proportion of automatic weapons.

...how often it was actually achieved is of course very dubious considering the Germans ever-worsening supply issues.

-snip-

Flammenwerfer 35 (or 41 with the same model) and Panzerbüsche 39 are both non-LMG options.

That heavy use of automatic weapons already is represented by other units.

Volksgrenadiers didn't use a lot of automatic weapons IRL and they don't necessarily have to have automatic weapons ingame.

A damage buff to their Kars seems like the only way since they can't use StGs or G43s.

It's also the best choice gmeplay-wise. Increasing their rifle damage to 14 won't change their intended role as defensive/meatshield units.

They'd be slightly more lethal. Comparable to vanilla Grens.

They can use StG's because they can use BAR's which have the same animation.

And Volks DID use a massive amount of automatic weapons, the 400 thousand of the StG's built during the war were earmarked for use by the Volks divisions.

Flammenwerfer 35 (or 41 with the same model) and Panzerbüsche 39 are both non-LMG options.

Flamethrowers could be a good alternative.

AT rifles, however, could cause the same issues like PTRS.

They can use StG's because they can use BAR's which have the same animation.

And Volks DID use a massive amount of automatic weapons, the 400 thousand of the StG's built during the war were earmarked for use by the Volks divisions.

Didn't FaustCostBulletin already point out that Volks can't use StGs?

Even if they could, what's the point of making them Sturmpio clones?

Make them better at what they are designed to do instead of adding a weapon because it's historically accurate.

Increasing Kar98 damage would make them worth building while keeping them as they are gameplay-wise.

Didn't FaustCostBulletin already point out that Volks can't use StGs?

Even if they could, what's the point of making them Sturmpio clones?

Make them better at what they are designed to do instead of adding a weapon because it's historically accurate.

Increasing Kar98 damage would make them worth building while keeping them as they are gameplay-wise.

I believe what he meant was that they could use it if simply Relic allowed it. Not that they can currently use it.



This is one of the top images when you Google Volksgrenadier (it's also the Wikipedia picture), and I think some members using a STG44 would be rather quaint, as PPSh Conscripts and Shock Troops are hardly clones of eachother even in that doctrine where they co-exist.

I'm not sure if 40% damage increase through an upgrade at all ranges is warranted... A STG-44 would not do that at least for all ranges, and there is no reason it can't be weaker and/or different in its range performance.

Volks dont need more AI

Sturms and Obers are there for a reason.

the faction design isnt that bad tbh

if u have trouble with vehicles. build a reketen, it doesn't suck anymore..

That heavy use of automatic weapons already is represented by other units.

Volksgrenadiers didn't use a lot of automatic weapons IRL and they don't necessarily have to have automatic weapons ingame.

A damage buff to their Kars seems like the only way since they can't use StGs or G43s.

It's also the best choice gmeplay-wise. Increasing their rifle damage to 14 won't change their intended role as defensive/meatshield units.

They'd be slightly more lethal. Comparable to vanilla Grens.

They'd overperform grens.
They are not meant to.
They are supposed to be middle ground between cons and grens, slightly worse then both, which they are now.
Volks need nothing and won't get nothing as long as they have shrecks.
They are supposed to be your core inf until you get call-in infantry or obers, then their role changes to meatshields and AT, they are not supposed to be effective AI unit, but a better scaling conscript, which they currently are.

They'd overperform grens.
They are not meant to.
They are supposed to be middle ground between cons and grens, slightly worse then both, which they are now.
Volks need nothing and won't get nothing as long as they have shrecks.
They are supposed to be your core inf until you get call-in infantry or obers, then their role changes to meatshields and AT, they are not supposed to be effective AI unit, but a better scaling conscript, which they currently are.

Are you sure they'd overperform Grens?

Anyway, I never said that Volks need any upgrades as long as they have shrecks. I didn't even say that they necessarily need upgrades at all.

However, if they lose their shrecks an upgrade might be justified.

I believe what he meant was that they could use it if simply Relic allowed it. Not that they can currently use it.

I think some members using a STG44 would be rather quaint, as PPSh Conscripts and Shock Troops are hardly clones of eachother even in that doctrine where they co-exist.

I'm not sure if 40% damage increase through an upgrade at all ranges is warranted... A STG-44 would not do that at least for all ranges, and there is no reason it can't be weaker and/or different in its range performance.

A damage buff for their rifles is just my favorite. If done right, StGs might be a good alternative. Flamethrowers would also work.

I don't think that a damage buff for their Kars, in this case to 14, would increase their DPS at all ranges that much.

I don't know the DPS formula so I can't comment on that.

Volks dont need more AI

Sturms and Obers are there for a reason.

the faction design isnt that bad tbh

if u have trouble with vehicles. build a reketen, it doesn't suck anymore..

The point of giving Volks AI instead of a Shrek and Sturms shreks would be to encourage people not to blob with shreks, since your non-ober AI in the form of Sturms would be handicapped, you would need to give something to Volks.

(Not to mention this is like saying to a Soviet player that Cons shouldn't get PPsH because shocks and guards exist)

They'd overperform grens.
They are not meant to.
They are supposed to be middle ground between cons and grens, slightly worse then both, which they are now.
Volks need nothing and won't get nothing as long as they have shrecks.
They are supposed to be your core inf until you get call-in infantry or obers, then their role changes to meatshields and AT, they are not supposed to be effective AI unit, but a better scaling conscript, which they currently are.

The whole point is that they would need a new upgrade if they lost the shrek, not that they should just ~magically~ get a new one.

And even if you gave them an StG upgrade they couldn't over preform next to Grens because Grens are much more long range focused than Volks are, not to mention have much more utility than Volks do.

You also don't understand what middle ground means, "worse than both" means "worse than both" not "in between both"

I don't think that a damage buff for their Kars, in this case to 14, would increase their DPS at all ranges that much.

I don't know the DPS formula so I can't comment on that.

a 40% increase in their basic rifle damage like that would make them better at every range, which would be kinda silly as even LMG's DPS drops off at close range. giving them StG 44's would give them close to medium range fire power which they need badly.

(Not to mention this is like saying to a Soviet player that Cons shouldn't get PPsH because shocks and guards exist)

Well, they more or less kinda shouldn't because it ain't all that great...

Well, they more or less kinda shouldn't because it ain't all that great...

It's fine on close range maps, shit on super open ones. Kinda sad how the PTRS blows it out of the water at all ranges. But the same principle applies; other units existing isn't carte blanche for one unit to suffer.

If your going to take away the thing that makes Volks desirable (the shrek) you need to give them something to make up the difference.