CAS needs adjusted

Dodging the call ins is fine, its dealing with a horde of LMG grens and Shreked PGs is where it gets annoying. You can Kite with shremans and scotts, but you really have to be on the ball to get it done.

This commander just flat out encourages massive infantry blobage. If the CAS player is able to control you without using fuel to muni conversion a lot, here comes the panther and gg.

The worst is getting the instant pin from the strafe even though you weren't even close to it and then your squads get rifle naded or bundled if you don't retreat. Instant I win button.

Just imagine if the USF had this commander? Constant P47s flying with rifle blobs running a muck. OST T1 and T2 would just get mauled by it and forced into T3 for an OSTWIND, but just like it is now with the current CAS; if the USF player manages the OST player well here comes the Jackson to own the ostwind and whatever T3 armor the ost player fielded.

all the supposed counterplay you mentions is either

a. obvious suggestion that works in every game

b. assuming ostheer player is blobbing noob.

Well if it works every game then what is the problem?
And i think it is safe to assume that the CAS player will blob to some extent.

i dont think it is particularly OP. it is just very cheesy and not fun to play against/with.

So by adjusted you mean nerfed? Not trying to be a asshole just want some clarification on this,
How would you 'adjust' it?

As for it being cheesy, You mean things like FHQ in 4's and Quadra industry?
Each side has its cheese for 4's and most of them are equally as bullshit.
Remember that CAS was a product of seeing B-4 Spam every game.

Well if it works every game then what is the problem?
And i think it is safe to assume that the CAS player will blob to some extent.

problem is that you are basically telling people that counter to CAS commander is playing well. and selling it like it is CAS specific counterplay while it is just pure logical play in almost every single game.

So by adjusted you mean nerfed? Not trying to be a asshole just want some clarification on this,
How would you 'adjust' it?

As for it being cheesy, You mean things like FHQ in 4's and Quadra industry?
Each side has its cheese for 4's and most of them are equally as bullshit.
Remember that CAS was a product of seeing B-4 Spam every game.

when did i say "adjusted"? i am not the OP.

why are you being so 'factionally' partisan btw? yes, FHQ and quadra industry is cheese like many other commanders. so what? you are saying because there are shits on both sides, it should be a wash? there are a lot of cheese and we should get to all of them in time.

"Remember that CAS was a product of seeing B-4 Spam every game."so it is all allies fault i see. well, b4 is product of axis late game being totally ridiculous in 3v3+. and it goes on and on.

problem is that you are basically telling people that counter to CAS commander is playing well. and selling it like it is CAS specific counterplay while it is just pure logical play in almost every single game

Well if 'Playing well' Is the counter, Then its good balance, Its nether too easy to pull off nor too easy to counter. Were as doing FHQ is the opposite problem very easy to pull off and very difficult to stop without good coordinated play from 4 players.

Btw my allied ranking is higher then my axis ranking currently and i play all 4 on a regular basis.
So i feel like calling me factionally partisan is a little unfair.

And B-4 potentially 1 shotting a JT was bullshit.
That kind of damage made CAS necessary. Allies have plenty of late game options
With their doctrines, I personally like medium swarms, But have used IS-2 and ISU to great effect as well.

when did i say "adjusted"? i am not the OP.

So you don't have a problem with it?

The most legitimate argument ive seen is 'It comes too fast from the edge of the map'
So if anything were to be done id say add 1s to the flight time so it gives the allied player more time to move.

Well if 'Playing well' Is the counter, Then its good balance, Its nether too easy to pull off nor too easy to counter. Were as doing FHQ is the opposite problem very easy to pull off and very difficult to stop without good coordinated play from 4 players.

Btw my allied ranking is higher then my axis ranking currently and i play all 4 on a regular basis.
So i feel like calling me factionally partisan is a little unfair.

And B-4 potentially 1 shotting a JT was bullshit.
That kind of damage made CAS necessary. Allies have plenty of late game options
With their doctrines, I personally like medium swarms, But have used IS-2 and ISU to great effect as well.


So you don't have a problem with it?

The most legitimate argument ive seen is 'It comes too fast from the edge of the map'
So if anything were to be done id say add 1s to the flight time so it gives the allied player more time to move.

it is basically saying L2P. adds nothing 'cept yours had a facade of "helpful" tips.

i played sov the most, ost second, usf third etc. but my favourite list goes usf, ost, sov. you can still have bias even when playing all factions. the fact that when we are talking about alleged ostheer cheeseness, and you keep swinging back to sov's cheeseness only bolster my view.

i have problem with CAS but i am not here to shove my opinion dick into ppl's mouths. there are many threads like this on the official forum and quite a few here. i am hoping relic sees it and analyse the situation themselves. if nothing happens, nothing happens. if CAS changes, i will see if it is for the better. etc etc.

i just have problem with ppl spreading non-facts.

Probably the worst thing about cas is that it can instantly supply mun for gren lmg42 blob in 6 min. And pretty annoying that you can get force retreated and recon dropped = 50kg on your base while your troops retreating.

it is basically saying L2P. adds nothing 'cept yours had a facade of "helpful" tips.

i played sov the most, ost second, usf third etc. but my favourite list goes usf, ost, sov. you can still have bias even when playing all factions. the fact that when we are talking about alleged ostheer cheeseness, and you keep swinging back to sov's cheeseness only bolster my view.

i have problem with CAS but i am not here to shove my opinion dick into ppl's mouths. there are many threads like this on the official forum and quite a few here. i am hoping relic sees it and analyse the situation themselves. if nothing happens, nothing happens. if CAS changes, i will see if it is for the better. etc etc.

i just have problem with ppl spreading non-facts.

You want Ostheer cheese? Its Luft supply in 4's dropping fuel on maps like lienne forest.
That is cheesy but CAS? Only reason i bring up soviet cheese is they just so happen to have more
of it to choose from.

Also please point out were i spread 'non facts' All the counter's listed are effective vs a CAS user.
Very effective in fact.

CAS is fine mostly but there are 3 things around the CAS which make it OP.

1. Plane crashed due to AA unit. AA unit should counter planes, that's obvious. Right now, AA will sjot down planes (mostly after strafe) and the plane will fall down at your side. Double win for Axis. In team games you can get over 20 crashes. Once I lost more unit due to crashes than to my opponent.

2. Some maps, where battlefront is close to the edge, make CAS completly undodgeable. 2,5-3s since fist flare, which means you must be freaking machine or you must doing nothing, only watching your Scott. 3s is way to fast. You cant dodge it. Rails and Metal is the worst here.

3. Spaming planes in 4v4. When you are facing at least 2 players with CAS, and you see planes every 15sec, you can't do nothing. For example. You are trying to flank with army, but you have 2 retreating units to the base and Priest/Katy behind the lines. All the time you see planes. You have to sacrafice micro attack to check your Priest or units in base if they are target for planes. It means your attack is lacking micro, you need look behind the line all the time. Allies (USF) already need intensive micro. With planes everywhere it's just freaking micro.
The most freaking thing was when I had 4 units healing in the base. I heard Stuka dive bomb so I moved them. I dodged this bomb but there were 3 more (2x CAS, 2x Jaeger Armor) in case if I moved hehe... 4 squads vanished. Very low chances to dodge.

CAS is fine mostly but there are 3 things around the CAS which make it OP.

1. Plane crashed due to AA unit. AA unit should counter planes, that's obvious. Right now, AA will sjot down planes (mostly after strafe) and the plane will fall down at your side. Double win for Axis. In team games you can get over 20 crashes. Once I lost more unit due to crashes than to my opponent.

2. Some maps, where battlefront is close to the edge, make CAS completly undodgeable. 2,5-3s since fist flare, which means you must be freaking machine or you must doing nothing, only watching your Scott. 3s is way to fast. You cant dodge it. Rails and Metal is the worst here.

3. Spaming planes in 4v4. When you are facing at least 2 players with CAS, and you see planes every 15sec, you can't do nothing. For example. You are trying to flank with army, but you have 2 retreating units to the base and Priest/Katy behind the lines. All the time you see planes. You have to sacrafice micro attack to check your Priest or units in base if they are target for planes. It means your attack is lacking micro, you need look behind the line all the time. Allies (USF) already need intensive micro. With planes everywhere it's just freaking micro.
The most freaking thing was when I had 4 units healing in the base. I heard Stuka dive bomb so I moved them. I dodged this bomb but there were 3 more (2x CAS, 2x Jaeger Armor) in case if I moved hehe... 4 squads vanished. Very low chances to dodge.

I'm still wondering what qualifies you to be a strategist.

The core issue with this commander is the redistribute ressources, it is what allows you to call the planes whenever you want, given they are not on cooldown. It's also what allows you to spam everything muni reliant.

I'm still wondering what qualifies you to be a strategist.

The core issue with this commander is the redistribute ressources, it is what allows you to call the planes whenever you want, given they are not on cooldown. It's also what allows you to spam everything muni reliant.

So are you denying that in team games cas is double win cause of mass crashes or that on certain maps is undodgeable?

So are you denying that in team games cas is double win cause of mass crashes or that on certain maps is undodgeable?

Its not its abilites its the spam that is the issue.

If we have 3 guys going CAS 1 doing Tigers and I know atleast I do not have any slither of micro left in me, and I suck with Ostheer anyway. All we need to do is hang in somewhat to 10 CP and just kill everything.

It is easy to use and hard to counter. It requires alot more work form the opponent than it does for the person using CAS.

Solve the issue by removing the fuel-muni conversion and it will not be spammable. Whilst you are doing that you could also remove all these idiot abilities that change resources income.

As I've understood they are not used much in 1v1 because their associated risk but I don't play 1s so someone will have to correct me if im wrong.
All those abilities are what breaks the game in teamgames, no it doesn't matter what faction that has them.
Just like decrewing for pop-cap for US is horribly broken in teamgames. Charge with 20 shermans isn't broken at all.

Its not its abilites its the spam that is the issue.

If we have 3 guys going CAS 1 doing Tigers and I know atleast I do not have any slither of micro left in me, and I suck with Ostheer anyway. All we need to do is hang in somewhat to 10 CP and just kill everything.

It is easy to use and hard to counter. It requires alot more work form the opponent than it does for the person using CAS.

Solve the issue by removing the fuel-muni conversion and it will not be spammable. Whilst you are doing that you could also remove all these idiot abilities that change resources income.

As I've understood they are not used much in 1v1 because their associated risk but I don't play 1s so someone will have to correct me if im wrong.
All those abilities are what breaks the game in teamgames, no it doesn't matter what faction that has them.
Just like decrewing for pop-cap for US is horribly broken in teamgames. Charge with 20 shermans isn't broken at all.

This

My problem with this commander is that it is so dependent on location for it to be effective. This results in some maps and areas being horrible for the opponent and others being awful for the user.

As long as these single pass strafes are dependent on a map edge to be effective or not, this commander will be broken in my opinion. Perhaps a static timeframe for payload delivery would be sufficient to at least make these more predictable for both user and opponent.

My other suggestion is to change the fuel>munition conversion into manpower>munition(2:1 maybe?). Couple this with ostheer tech costs this would force more decision making into whether you need troops on the field or more ability use and upgrades. I'm not sure how this would affect the osttruppen commander with this ability.

You want Ostheer cheese? Its Luft supply in 4's dropping fuel on maps like lienne forest.
That is cheesy but CAS? Only reason i bring up soviet cheese is they just so happen to have more
of it to choose from.

Also please point out were i spread 'non facts' All the counter's listed are effective vs a CAS user.
Very effective in fact.

"Its dodge-able if you want to complain about the Stuka pin its the loitering one that can't miss."

i want to see a replay where you or your enemy constantly and reliably dodge the AI strafe. people i play with i never missed them and i only dodged twice, both due to the user being a total idiot. but anyway, my problem with you is mainly your fancy "L2P" replies.

Plz dont tell people to learn 2 play, This is not the issue here.

CAS needs a confirmed time to strike, fuel to muni transfer needs to be adjusted or replaced, stuka AT strafe needs damage reduction or pen reduction, and stuka dive bomb shouldnt work in base HQ.

Flat out its a broken doc, its not fun to play with or aginst.

There is no unit that can counter this doc

AA HT and the sov quad will most likely not take down any aircraft

If the do they pplane will crash somewhere

ive taken out soo many AA HT's with an AT strafe. the thing cant move while in it's AAA mode, and cannot stop the plane....

What I have noticed and is very sick about this forum is that it is full of allies fanboys whose goal in life is to spend it all in this forum and complain, and cry about anything axis has and cry/beg relic to nerf it. even if it belongs to the UNQUESTIONABLY THE WEAKEST FACTION IN THE GAME (WEHRMACHT).
I would recommend you to learn to play instead of crying my friend!

lol

Can we do without this 'fanboi' stuff? Thanks all the same

There is no unit that can counter this doc

AA HT and the sov quad will most likely not take down any aircraft

If the do they pplane will crash somewhere

ive taken out soo many AA HT's with an AT strafe. the thing cant move while in it's AAA mode, and cannot stop the plane....

The irony of this lol

Solution: change how it approaches the battlefield while mantaining the timing of unloading it's payload.

1-Make the plane arrive from the opposite direction you want it to cast the strafe*.
----This makes the plane be counterable.
----It makes plane crashes not be only for the victim of the strafe
2-The plane then makes a U turn and strafes.
3-To account for the longer exposing time some changes have to be done so the time of attack remains practically the same.
----Plane arrives inmediatly after casting the ability
----Flares are delayed a bit
----Speed of plane might need to be increased


*Not neccesarily 180°.