Can we talk about OMGPOP! in the SCK Cup?

So if any of you have been watching Romeo's Star Crossed King's cup, you know OMGPOP! is on a roll right now. I've watched other matches with other top ranked players, but the way POP is winning just seems different.

The other guys seem to win with brilliant micro on multiple engagements, pathing and mine placement, barbing off cover, building control....basically this grand scheme of intricate game-knowledge honed over hundreds of hours of play.

POP doesn't seem to do any of this. His strategy seems more approachable to someone like myself who loves this game, but doesn't have elite micro skills or time to learn every nuanced mine and demo charge position. Maybe I'm wrong and you keen eyed veterans will say otherwise. I'm trying to figure it out for myself, so here's my thoughts on how he's been so successful:

Round-start he does what most people do, splitting and capping appropriate positions, but very quickly he seems to split his forces into a combat group and a lone capping squad. The combat group pushes the safest side with fuel and a victory point, and pushes all the way on that side, then cuts across to the opponents cutoff. Then he'll back-cap with that lone capping group. He usually wins the engagements with his combat group because they represent the entirety of his forces except for the single harassment squad. It's almost like his strategy is as simple as drawing #7 on the map with all his squads but one. Then back caps with the remaining.

What do you guys think?

I would be interested to see how he plays the game control wise. Does he use Tac Map or Minimap ? WASD ? Control groups ? Gridkeys or Classic ? How fast is he etc...

Pop if you see this it would be great to hear you explain some of this stuff.

Edit: Or maybe stream? If your equipment allows you to do so ofc.

I'll have to watch the games to get into more specifics but this is my experience playing with/against/watching POP:

Camping cut-offs isn't reinventing the wheel, but POP definitely does it better than anyone else. Then again, he usually puts more resources into it than anyone else. He has always made excellent use of the 251 and positions his MG42s better than most, if not every other player at the moment.

His build-orders are always extremely crisp, even to the point of figuring out exactly how long it takes units to move from starting positions to different places on the map so that he knows exactly what he can get away with and what capping orders to use. He really puts his time into researching the game on a deep level.

His micro is actually amazing. He has never shown anything on stream but just try and hit any of his units with a grenade... good luck. He uses cover as expertly as any of the other top players and his vehicle micro is top-notch. Rarely will you land a faust on him unless he wants you to and he is ruthless about chasing down retreating squads if you let them get out of position. There's a reason why flamer cars are called POP cars.

He is also significantly more patient than I've seen most players be. He isn't afraid to dig in his units and camp his half of the map until he reaches some point in his build in which he knows that he has an advantage. He doesn't let himself get uncomfortable and feed vet to MGs or Snipers until he has a force that will triumph in the ensuing fight.

His only downfall in my opinion is that he tends to be tunnel visioned on one strat per patch. Not sure if that is a weakness or just a sign of his high level of discipline.

That sounds like what pop has been doing since the very first time I saw him play. Well written.

Sounds like he has an innate intuition, or feel of game flow. How armies ebb and sway across maps he has an intricate understanding of.

I'll have to watch the games to get into more specifics but this is my experience playing with/against/watching POP:

Camping cut-offs isn't reinventing the wheel, but POP definitely does it better than anyone else. Then again, he usually puts more resources into it than anyone else. He has always made excellent use of the 251 and positions his MG42s better than most, if not every other player at the moment.

His build-orders are always extremely crisp, even to the point of figuring out exactly how long it takes units to move from starting positions to different places on the map so that he knows exactly what he can get away with and what capping orders to use. He really puts his time into researching the game on a deep level.

His micro is actually amazing. He has never shown anything on stream but just try and hit any of his units with a grenade... good luck. He uses cover as expertly as any of the other top players and his vehicle micro is top-notch. Rarely will you land a faust on him unless he wants you to and he is ruthless about chasing down retreating squads if you let them get out of position. There's a reason why flamer cars are called POP cars.

He is also significantly more patient than I've seen most players be. He isn't afraid to dig in his units and camp his half of the map until he reaches some point in his build in which he knows that he has an advantage. He doesn't let himself get uncomfortable and feed vet to MGs or Snipers until he has a force that will triumph in the ensuing fight.

His only downfall in my opinion is that he tends to be tunnel visioned on one strat per patch. Not sure if that is a weakness or just a sign of his high level of discipline.

Well said.
Can you talk about others top player like Jesulin, Paula, Lunest, Jove,Quentin...etc? I like to learn more of this game meta.

Well said.
Can you talk about others top player like Jesulin, Paula, Lunest, Jove,Quentin...etc? I like to learn more of this game meta.

Hmm I'm not sure I have the current required knowledge of most top players to give them the sort of analysis that they deserve. Perhaps if I actually start playing CoH 2 again (well more than 1 game a week) I'll spend some time putting together a little something for each of the consistently top 10 players.

The #1 hallmark of POP's playstyle is AGGRESSION. He puts his OKW trucks in ridiculously aggressive locations. His first healing bunker as ostheer is always in the middle of the battlefield instead of his base. He gets at least two light vehicles every game as every faction. He invests a huge amount of resources into low-tier units and infantry so he can win engagements far away from his own base.

I actually really like that you mention that his strategy seems approachable for someone that does not have elite micro skills. The amazing thing about OMGPOP! is that he makes beating the pros LOOK easy. That really couldn't be further from the truth. When you play that aggressively, there's a very good chance that one engagement could lose you the game.

Give his all-or-nothing style a try! Ignore the strategic and victory points initially and go straight for your opponent's cutoff. Set up your faction's forward reinforce/heal point in as aggressive a location as you can manage and pump out 2-3 light vehicles before transitioning to something heavier. Only back-cap if you can spare a squad away from the combat.

You'll find out very quickly that this strategy is harder than it looks

I would be interested to see how he plays the game control wise. Does he use Tac Map or Minimap ? WASD ? Control groups ? Gridkeys or Classic ? How fast is he etc...

Pop if you see this it would be great to hear you explain some of this stuff.

Edit: Or maybe stream? If your equipment allows you to do so ofc.

Minimap, I lose track of units sometimes because I don't use tac map. But I've been playing RTS since Red Alert/Starcraft 1 days and coh franchise is the only game with tac map, it's hard to make the adjustments.

Map scrolling is mini-map clicking + fastest mouse edge scroll.

All units are hotkeyed, runs through 1 to 7.

Classic hotkeys.

I'm actually pretty slow, a good game for me and I can have maybe 120 apm tops. This is the reason why I've been bad at SC/SC2, I can't build the macro habits required to play well in classic RTS games. Even in this game I can float a lot of manpower, miss key unit timing etc.

The reason I play the way I do is because back when I was learning the game and laddered a lot, due to the smaller player pool, I will usually get matched with players significantly weaker than myself. Aggressive strategies usually end games faster and these strategies became the only ones I know and practice.

As for streaming, back in SNF 5 qualifiers I streamed on twitch with lowest quality to the closest server and it lagged the games like crazy! Eventually I got screenshotter to work and never tried to stream again.

Inetressting insights ins this thread. I´d like to see more replays from you, OMGPOP.

Awesome thx for the info ! A shame that you can't stream
One more question: You have only played a hundred ladder games as USF do you have sparring partners to practice with or something like that ? I mean I understand that laddergames are an extremely ineffective way to improve your skill level due to the lack of challenging opponents for you but having no practice at all doesn't seem to great either. (and a 100 games since wfa release of which 90 percents were stomps is basically nothing)

As for streaming, back in SNF 5 qualifiers I streamed on twitch with lowest quality to the closest server and it lagged the games like crazy! Eventually I got screenshotter to work and never tried to stream again.

You have enought time to beat more challangers at the SCK Cup to buy better hardware

I would love to watch you stream, OMGPOP. Which part of the streaming setup are you missing? The machine? Or the bandwidth?

I would love if the observed mode allowed us to see players clicks and to actually "follow" players camera, like in SC2.

One of the reasons OMGPOP! is so hard to beat is specifically because he doesn't stream. The best players in COH have most often been highly disciplined players who repeatedly use the same strategies for every game because they have been designed to work, without a large amount of improvising in game. Players tend to place their units in the same areas of the map, put mines at the same locations, etc. If you play or watch a player long enough, you don't need a mine sweeper to know where their mines are; you basically know when their units will come out and where they will send them; and you can blind fire your indirect fire units into the FoW and have a pretty good chance of hitting something. If OMGPOP! were to start streaming all of his games, he would be much easier to beat. Competitive players don't just hand over their secrets to the rest of the player base if they want to stay competitive. Sure, you can observe his games or try to find replays or watch someone cast his games, and he can't do anything about that. But that is still a poor substitute for watching every click of his screen on a stream, which tells you exactly where his mind is focusing and what he would like to be doing, as well as what he actually is doing.

One of the reasons OMGPOP! is so hard to beat is specifically because he doesn't stream. The best players in COH have most often been highly disciplined players who repeatedly use the same strategies for every game because they have been designed to work, without a large amount of improvising in game. Players tend to place their units in the same areas of the map, put mines at the same locations, etc. If you play or watch a player long enough, you don't need a mine sweeper to know where their mines are; you basically know when their units will come out and where they will send them; and you can blind fire your indirect fire units into the FoW and have a pretty good chance of hitting something. If OMGPOP! were to start streaming all of his games, he would be much easier to beat. Competitive players don't just hand over their secrets to the rest of the player base if they want to stay competitive. Sure, you can observe his games or try to find replays or watch someone cast his games, and he can't do anything about that. But that is still a poor substitute for watching every click of his screen on a stream, which tells you exactly where his mind is focusing and what he would like to be doing, as well as what he actually is doing.

I am probably am going to get hated on for saying this as it might seem to be an excuse but it's an honest truth that I would just like to add to your point about streaming.

As we all know CoH2 is a poorly optimised game, it runs slow as it is. Now combine that with streaming which also takes a huge toll on your processor you end up with a much slower game. People who have tried streaming CoH2 will know what I am on about. You can definitely notice a huge difference in performance when streaming and it really does effect you game. For instance dodging grenades when streaming is harder to do as you have more delay.

I am probably am going to get hated on for saying this as it might seem to be an excuse but it's an honest truth that I would just like to add to your point about streaming.

As we all know CoH2 is a poorly optimised game, it runs slow as it is. Now combine that with streaming which also takes a huge toll on your processor you end up with a much slower game. People who have tried streaming CoH2 will know what I am on about. You can definitely notice a huge difference in performance when streaming and it really does effect you game. For instance dodging grenades when streaming is harder to do as you have more delay.

My internet definitely takes a little hit, especially if my wife is watching Netflix on top of streaming and playing, but my internet sucks.

I do find myself getting distracted by talking with viewers and losing squads while I'm looking on my second monitor

My internet definitely takes a little hit, especially if my wife is watching Netflix on top of streaming and playing, but my internet sucks.

I do find myself getting distracted by talking with viewers and losing squads while I'm looking on my second monitor

But you are closer to Relic Battleservers than we our trololol

But you are closer to Relic Battleservers than we our trololol

Yeah and I'm paying for the best internet my ISP says they can give me where I live and I only get a MAX of 16 Mbs down, 2 up. Usually it's around 12 down, 1.75 up.

Makes me a sad man.

At least you are not playing with 3G connection

Those lags and kicks