Is the King Tiger still worth 260 fuel?

2 Panthers outperform the KT in every way (longer range, damage, accuracy, AI and AT, manuverability).

There is no reason to go for KT in 1v1, 2v2s

I very much doubt the ai part

Yeah the King tiger is one of those units that needs to be formidable in all areas except speed even a little challenging to hardcounters, at a high price after fully teching. Thats the whole point of the unit. Right now considering that 125 fuel jackson is more dangerous to a king tiger than a king tiger to a jackson just shows its not really performing that. I'm not saying the King tiger should be able to slay jacksons, just that TD's pose a decent threat but you have the advantage. 425 armor wasn't uncounterable. It was blitzkrieg that broke it. Because it gets rid of the units weakness making it a god.

In terms of viability, the king tiger just got a good amount lower, considering a huge portion of your resource pool. You put in it that it has to shy away immediately every time he sees a tank destroyer with spotter or risk trying to chase it and get fucked.

But it would require a bigger community backlash to get this reverted, even though most agree that this change wasn't needed. Its here to stay because lelic.

agreed, but i think the change is in the right direction. allies does not mean only USF, this change is likely done for the sake of soviets who are sorely lacking in anti heavy tank options which either the Zis or su85, in where 425 armour really broke stuff like shrugging off 5 AT guns?

its still a very powerful tank, except how players will need to be careful with it. still, allies do not have a safe option to take it down. jacksons are far too fragile to chase it down and su85 is slow and clumsy, allied mediums and heavies dont have the punch to tackle it from the front.

The problem with the KT is that relic nerfed it directly, then indirectly nerfed it again by buffing its counter. I don't know why relic did this, but either way, we now have a KT with 375 armor vs. the Jackson with > 200 pen. Please take my thoughts with a grain of salt, as I have only used the KT twice post patch and gone against it thrice.

I think that the KT should get an armor increase to 400.

Why is this? Because I believe that as a super heavy tank that comes out quite late into the game (I am talking 1s and 2s here), it should be worth the 260 fuel that was put into it. If this was pre-shreck+ober nerf, I would agree that the KT would be fine with 375 armor, but the fact of the matter is that it just isn't viable for an OKW player to blob shrecks into KT anymore because the shreck is now far less reliable an AT weapon at max range (as it should be) and that the OKW now have a secondary muni sink in the obers/panzerfus.

On top of this, the raketen, while a great unit now, still has ten less range than most AT weapons, which means that it cannot be used in a very offensive way, or as effectively as a screening weapon.

As a result, OKW players are more and more being forced into varying their builds and building JP4s and pumas to make up for this gap in midgame AT power.

All of these factors combine to make me believe that the KT needs a slight armor buff the reflect its place at the apex of the OKW build tree. 400 armor would be a good amount, as it would give it slightly higher staying power, but not at such a high level as it used to be.

As I stated earlier, this is all from a 1v1, 2v2 perspective.

Sorry if the best heavy tank in the game does not have enough value for you guys.


@comm_ash
I'd argue that Jackson may be a bit too cheap now for what it offers.

Come on guys, OKW already has substantial amount of AT options with in their arsenal which are more than enough against medium armor. KT needed that nerf because this heavy tank is non-doctrinal and we see this in every game 2v2+. USF and Soviets (aside from ONE heavy in a doctrine) already lacks proper high damaging AT capabilities. Jackson is in a good place right now because USF lacks heavy armor PERIOD and they need a dedicated high DPS AT. Bazooka's and Shermans pale in comparison to what Axis can muster.

the KT was overnerfed, it simply is not worth it's fuel cost now.

the KT was overnerfed, it simply is not worth it's fuel cost now.

Agreed it was balanced but Relic sucumbed to the whine of Allies. As it was stated multiple times high teching cost, need all trucks to deploy, high actual cost of the unit and most importantly the timing is 35++ minutes into the game. This unit needs to be really good for all those disadvantages you can't play around just because it requires lots of fuel and if you count in nerfed blitz and slow speed it needs the armor to stay alive.

Agreed it was balanced but Relic sucumbed to the whine of Allies. As it was stated multiple times high teching cost, need all trucks to deploy, high actual cost of the unit and most importantly the timing is 35++ minutes into the game. This unit needs to be really good for all those disadvantages you can't play around just because it requires lots of fuel and if you count in nerfed blitz and slow speed it needs the armor to stay alive.

But Germans mustnt have strong tanks!

all this drama just because of 50 amrour nerf and jackson's 5% increased potency against heavy+ tanks. wow.

But Germans mustnt have strong tanks!

It has nothing to do with the fact it's German tank. Look at the teching and actual cost, look at the time this unit arrives on the field. It needs to perform good because of these requirements! I just think that tank which requires this insane amout of resources should perform acordingly to it's cost.

all this drama just because of 50 amrour nerf and jackson's 5% increased potency against heavy+ tanks. wow.

If you take this particular lineup into consideration, it's WAY more than 5%. And let's not forget about AP rounds.

As comm_ash already mentioned, it's the combined direct & indirect changes. And it isn't "just" 260 fuel either, if you consider the fuel penalty AND the tech costs.

The problem with the KT is that relic nerfed it directly, then indirectly nerfed it again by buffing its counter. I don't know why relic did this, but either way, we now have a KT with 375 armor vs. the Jackson with > 200 pen. Please take my thoughts with a grain of salt, as I have only used the KT twice post patch and gone against it thrice.

I think that the KT should get an armor increase to 400.

Why is this? Because I believe that as a super heavy tank that comes out quite late into the game (I am talking 1s and 2s here), it should be worth the 260 fuel that was put into it. If this was pre-shreck+ober nerf, I would agree that the KT would be fine with 375 armor, but the fact of the matter is that it just isn't viable for an OKW player to blob shrecks into KT anymore because the shreck is now far less reliable an AT weapon at max range (as it should be) and that the OKW now have a secondary muni sink in the obers/panzerfus.

On top of this, the raketen, while a great unit now, still has ten less range than most AT weapons, which means that it cannot be used in a very offensive way, or as effectively as a screening weapon.

As a result, OKW players are more and more being forced into varying their builds and building JP4s and pumas to make up for this gap in midgame AT power.

All of these factors combine to make me believe that the KT needs a slight armor buff the reflect its place at the apex of the OKW build tree. 400 armor would be a good amount, as it would give it slightly higher staying power, but not at such a high level as it used to be.

As I stated earlier, this is all from a 1v1, 2v2 perspective.

OKW players getting Jagd P4s now? I feel like thats a pretty good unintended consequence

Well they only buffed one of the counters because the jackson was unreliable (and Blitz prevented it from even doing its job and kiting). They nerfed the armor because there happens to be another faction in this game, and anything not an IS2 struggled to penetrate its armor making it a pretty huge deal. There are plenty of people here who seem to think nerfing the armor was too much, Really its because they are not used to having to worry about their investment now beyond the IS2. at 375 much of the tank shells still bounce keeping it still a very strong tank.

Is it worth its price? I believe so. It has the most combat capability of anything in this game. It just now can be delt with at a reasonable amount of effort.

The nerf will not stop players from building Panthers in 1v1 into a KT later on, it probably will stop the OKW defensive commander players from going pak43 into King Tiger though.

It's not "I win" button anymore.
Still great tank worthy every resource you pay for it.

Heavy tanks are not ment to be indestructible behemoths of doom.

You axis players screamed for months that IS-2 is OP with 375 and now that KT got that as well its suddenly up?
Then I suppose we should start talking about buffing IS-2 as well.

KT still have superior durability and firepower, combat blitz still means it can go NASCAR as the nerf to it wasn't that strong, its worth every extra resource above other heavies cost and boo fucking HOO that USF have a glass cannon unit that is now able to actually fend off the axis heavy tanks.

Adapt or extinct.

all this drama just because of 50 amrour nerf and jackson's 5% increased potency against heavy+ tanks. wow.

Except the Jackson got 40 more penetration, so it got about 16% more penetration. While the KT itself lost 50 armor, which means everything has a 20% higher chance to penetrate it, by no means was it just 5%.

Sorry if the best heavy tank in the game does not have enough value for you guys.

Do you understand the concept of "efficiency"?

USF and Soviets (aside from ONE heavy in a doctrine) already lacks proper high damaging AT capabilities. Jackson is in a good place right now because USF lacks heavy armor PERIOD and they need a dedicated high DPS AT. Bazooka's and Shermans pale in comparison to what Axis can muster.

Then why not make the basic AT for Soviet and USF like AT guns better, instead of making the most expensive tank in the game worse? And you don't see it in "every" 2's game or even every 3's game. It's an absolute last resort unit because if you forgo making anything to get it your going to get fucked.

It's not "I win" button anymore.
Still great tank worthy every resource you pay for it.

If by "I win" you mean "I now control this one VP forever, good luck unseating me fucker", it's still as good as it ever was on the defensive, but it's offensive capabilities got a fairly hard nerf.

at 375 much of the tank shells still bounce keeping it still a very strong tank.

This means nothing, because it's to slow to be able to move out of the way of enemy AT options. The reason it had 425 armor was because it's slow as garden and has to sit in the range of enemy at for much much longer than an IS2 does, or even a Tiger does.

Remember: The Jackson has a extremely good top speed, it can easily run a KT down now that Blitz and Overdrive were nerfed.

KT still have superior durability and firepower, combat blitz still means it can go NASCAR as the nerf to it wasn't that strong, its worth every extra resource above other heavies cost and boo fucking HOO that USF have a glass cannon unit that is now able to actually fend off the axis heavy tanks.

Really? Because the nerf means that even if you crank up Overdrive you will only be moving .3 faster than the IS2, you will still be slower than the Jackson, you will still be slower than both the T34 varients, you will be slower than the Easy Eight.

The issue here is that the double whammy means the KT isn't any good as an offensive tank like the IS2 is because it has to fuck around sitting inside enemy AT for much longer than any other tank in the game.

You axis players screamed for months that IS-2 is OP with 375 and now that KT got that as well its suddenly up?

Maybe the IS2's strength is that it has 375 armor while being almost as fast as a medium tank? Because with a KT you need to sit infront of enemy AT for much longer than an IS2. If your not using your IS2's to rush enemy AT positions and encircle them your doing it wrong. The greatest strength of the IS2 is it's speed + armor. The problem with the KT is that all it had going for it in assaults was the armor, which is now gone.

Maybe the IS2's strength is that it has 375 armor while being almost as fast as a medium tank? Because with a KT you need to sit infront of enemy AT for much longer than an IS2. If your not using your IS2's to rush enemy AT positions and encircle them your doing it wrong. The greatest strength of the IS2 is it's speed + armor. The problem with the KT is that all it had going for it in assaults was the armor, which is now gone.

Show me a SINGLE 1v1 or 2v2 game where IS-2 is utilized like medium tank thanks to the speed instead of as tiger/KT thanks to its armor.

A single rep.
If you are rushing your IS-2 to do it, then you probably just ended up fausted and nuked or rolled over a mine.

Show me a SINGLE 1v1 or 2v2 game where IS-2 is utilized like medium tank thanks to the speed instead of as tiger/KT thanks to its armor.

A single rep.
If you are rushing your IS-2 to do it, then you probably just ended up fausted and nuked or rolled over a mine.

The faust has only around a 30-40% chance to hit a IS2 and get a snare on it, and sitting your grens perfectly still in the range of an IS2 is normally not a very great idea. The IS2 has a good gun that can 1 shot or bring a squad down to no health reliably, AT guns beware.

This is amplified by the fact barring the Panther, Axis AT really isn't that fast. It's not hard to push up and get around enemy AT guns or force a JT to pull back lest it get dazed and killed.

One must only look at the comparative speeds to get a clear picture. The KT is only .8 faster than a infantry squad, while the IS2 is 2.1 faster meaning that you can escape from enemy infantry based AT much faster.

The KT's main gun is great! But if you can't get it to a place to shoot anything then it's just not worth buying, Allied AT is fast and attacking it with a slow tank is just asking to get mark targeted, P47'd and then run down by a horde of enemy tanks.

Also the mine part perplex's me because I always sweep ahead of my tank assaults no matter what game mode or tank I'm using, you don't?

It has nothing to do with the fact it's German tank. Look at the teching and actual cost, look at the time this unit arrives on the field. It needs to perform good because of these requirements! I just think that tank which requires this insane amout of resources should perform acordingly to it's cost.

It had too much armor

the nurf came out of the blue for sure

but its for the better