Is the King Tiger still worth 260 fuel?

Can still 2 shot AT guns and 1 shot inf squads.

Hey, I tried to make some games with the KT, but it´s hard to get.

In fact it has always been hard to get. Costing officially 260 fuel - but practically 390 fuel (2/3 income) + all three tech buildings up, it doesn´t seem worth to get. But it now has the same frontal-armor value as an IS-2. Not even the stronger gun can justify this.

At the end of the day, with all the tech involved, the lowered fuel income and the high price, it costs as much as two IS-2s. And it does get the same armor. I think it´s dull to do this as historically (omg did he say history) it had more armor.

If it has to be tuned down, because Allied players are too lazy to flank - I think at least a price decrease would be adequate. You barely see it.

tl;dr - Problem: Same armor as IS-2, yet almost twice as expensive fuel-wise for the first unit.

No, unless you really float mp, or in a messed up 4v4 game which ur mates can make up lack of armor for you.

Otherwise, not fair investment when it has the same armor of IS2 and twice expensive as that

Can still 2 shot AT guns and 1 shot inf squads.

If the rng is in your favour

Whats wrong with 375 armor?

Nothing wrong, but since it's a game, to be fair units should be measured up to their price, and it's not when it has the same armor as IS2 but almost twice as expensive

3 days ago, 1v1... and my enemy called for KT.

Of course I knew he is going to get so I was prepared. 2 IS2s, 2 ZiSes and 2 cons with AT nades ready.

3 times this damn thing was able to escape with engine damage and 5-15% of health. 3 damn times becasue over 50% of shots were bounced.

Reminds me of the more expensive IS2 Kreygasmn

Its not so much the KT cost but also the teching cost to unlock it. Considering the new Jackson and plethora of allied tanks that outrange it badly I dont even bother with it in 2v2's anymore. JagdTiger has become a must.

3 days ago, 1v1... and my enemy called for KT.

Of course I knew he is going to get so I was prepared. 2 IS2s, 2 ZiSes and 2 cons with AT nades ready.

3 times this damn thing was able to escape with engine damage and 5-15% of health. 3 damn times becasue over 50% of shots were bounced.

good point! by the time he could get a KT, you already had 2 IS2s

btw now ONE IS2 and ONE kt have the same armor.

which position would I like to be?! I would pick 2 IS2s (which has the same armor as kt) any day over one KT

good point! by the time he could get a KT, you already had 2 IS2s

btw now ONE IS2 and ONE kt have the same armor.

which position would I like to be?! I would pick 2 IS2s (which has the same armor as kt) any day over one KT

I had 2 IS2s cause for about 50-60% of the game I had 2 fuels or he was cutted from his fuel. That's why it was 2 IS2s vs 1 KT. Usually it's 2 IS2s vs Jadgpanzer+KT or Panther+KT or 2 Panthers.

But like I said many times. 375 is to big nerf for KT. If the wanted to nerf it, 400 would be perfect.

I had 2 IS2s cause for about 50-60% of the game I had 2 fuels or he was cutted from his fuel. That's why it was 2 IS2s vs 1 KT. Usually it's 2 IS2s vs Jadgpanzer+KT or Panther+KT or 2 Panthers.

But like I said many times. 375 is to big nerf for KT. If the wanted to nerf it, 400 would be perfect.

Yeah why didnt they simply buff Allied AT gun pen and nerfing its main gun? (and of course removing blitz)

I had 2 IS2s cause for about 50-60% of the game I had 2 fuels or he was cutted from his fuel. That's why it was 2 IS2s vs 1 KT. Usually it's 2 IS2s vs Jadgpanzer+KT or Panther+KT or 2 Panthers.

But like I said many times. 375 is to big nerf for KT. If the wanted to nerf it, 400 would be perfect.

You didn't need to have him cut off or anything to have 2 IS2s by the time he gets a KT.

KT= 40+80+260=380 / 0.66= 575

Even if you both get equal territory, by the time he gets enough resource to get a KT you get 575 fuel.

IS2=230, 575/230= 2.5

That is 2.5 IS2s by the time you he gets fuel for KT, in case you both get the same territory.

Now let's take a look at the other cases you mentioned:

JP+KT= 380+135= 515 / 0.66= 780.3, 780.3/230= 3.39 : That's 3.4 IS2s vs KT+JP

Panther+KT= 380+175= 555 / 0.66= 840.9/230= 3.66 : That's 3.7 IS2s vs KT+Panther

2 Panthers= 80+175+175= 430 / 0.66= 651.52/230= 2.82 : That's 2.8 IS2s vs 2 Panthers

Its not so much the KT cost but also the teching cost to unlock it. Considering the new Jackson and plethora of allied tanks that outrange it

What a joke

Plethora being jackson, su85, and vet 2 is2

3 tanks

in-contrast, usf has no heavy

and

is2 is outranged by stug, jp4, JP, panther (stock), and puma (there is are more likely more vehicles that outrange it at vet 5 or vet 3)

but yea, a Plethora of allied tanks outrange a KT.

soo funny...

Old jackson vs Tiger B set up. max pen 200/425 * 240 dmg = 112 dmg per hit in average
new jackson vs Tiger B Set up. max pen 240/375 * 200 dmg = 128 dmg per hit in average

128/112 = 1.14

OMG

JACKSON HAS BEEN BUFFED BY 14% more damage in average D:

They lowered the armor on the King Tiger by 50, and every 10 armor increases the chance to bounce by about ~4%. So it got 20% less likely to bounce shots from basically all sources, and combined with the Jackson buff makes the Jackson much more likely to penetrate it.

The old Jackson at max pen had less than a 50% chance to pen frontally, but the new Jackson has a 64% chance to pen frontally at maximum penetration.

And remember the fact HVAP shells still do 240 damage and they give you a much much higher chance to penetrate the KT's armor. The Jackson is also much faster than the KT.

Acceleration:
2.5
Max:
6.5

for the Jackson compared to the KT's max speed over 3.8 and acceleration of 1.4

Can still 2 shot AT guns and 1 shot inf squads.

Okay? By this metric the Sturmtiger is the best tank in the game because it can 1 shot everything short of a 800 health tank.

Even though blitz is nerfed, 3.8 * 1.4 is still faster than IS-2's top speed.

Yeah, .3 faster. And it's an ability with a cool down and cost.

But also a much better maingun. KT is absolutely still worth the price. It's just that call-in meta is broken, but that has been for a while now, and hasn't specifically gotten worse with the armor nerf of the KT.

The main gun is the only "better" thing on the KT, but if you can't use it because the KT is to slow to be able to push and retreat then it's really only good for covering a VP.

But it IS the best. It's not as good as it was, but you can't deny it's still absolutely the best heavy tank in the game. I'd gladly give up the IS-2s speed for the KT's main gun. Destroying an AT gun in a single shot with it isn't unusual. Actually hitting something (well, infantry) with the IS-2 is.

The KT's main gun is great, but if you can't get the gun to a place to shoot at things then it's useless. Is it by stats the best heavy in the game? Yes, for cost? Nope. The IS2 is king there for 1 huge reason; cost versus effectiveness.

The IS-2 is only slightly less accurate than the regular Tiger with a .5 bigger AoE and a better AoE profile meaning 1 shots with it are more common than with the standard Tiger.

Even using a KT is usual, the problem is that the IS2 is just a bigger medium tank that gets a lot of use while the KT is kinda stuck being this rare tank that almost never gets past Vet 1 because it's only on the field at the very very end of the game. It is almost always either part of a desperate last defense or push, while the IS2 gets to get a lot more use.

I don't think you are paying attention to the fact the slow speed on the KT means it has to sit in front of enemy AT for a much longer time than the IS2 does. And the frontal armor bounces Fausts fairly easily so snaring it can normally only be accomplished through mines.

The KT had the best armor and health, because it had the lowest speed. If it had the IS2's great mobility it wouldn't need the 425 armor or the extra 240 health.

Show Spoiler

You look at situation when you rely only on T2. I never do that. 120 for T3 and T70 or and T34 is very important.

What a joke

Plethora being jackson, su85, and vet 2 is2

3 tanks

in-contrast, usf has no heavy

and

is2 is outranged by stug, jp4, JP, panther (stock), and puma (there is are more likely more vehicles that outrange it at vet 5 or vet 3)

but yea, a Plethora of allied tanks outrange a KT.

soo funny...

All of those things except the Panther have less of a chance to penetrate the KT than the Jackson does, and the Panther doesn't do 200 damage or has 240 damage HVAP shells.

The biggest advantage Axis has in AT is the super heavy TD's like the Jadgtiger and Elefant, as well as the Pak43 (which seriously isn't an issue for allied players with the large amount of indirect they can field against it, the premier IS2 doctrine has flame barrages).

You look at situation when you rely only on T2. I never do that. 120 for T3 and T70 or and T34 is very important.

This isn't hard at all with the IS2 doctrine, you get Shock Troops from it as well as the KV-8. The T34 is basically only good for facing down enemy infantry, not really much point when you get get a KV-8 as a call in.

T1 + T2 into IS2's is fairly standard since you get every tool you need, it basically is just a mirror of the Ostheer T1 + T2 into Tigers.

-

Dont reply to me.

i have no patience for your theory crafting bullshit

Dont reply to me.

i have no patience for your theory crafting bullshit

Showing you obvious easy to look up numbers =/= theory crafting.

You didn't need to have him cut off or anything to have 2 IS2s by the time he gets a KT.

KT= 40+80+260=380 / 0.66= 575

Even if you both get equal territory, by the time he gets enough resource to get a KT you get 575 fuel.

IS2=230, 575/230= 2.5

That is 2.5 IS2s by the time you he gets fuel for KT, in case you both get the same territory.

Now let's take a look at the other cases you mentioned:

JP+KT= 380+135= 515 / 0.66= 780.3, 780.3/230= 3.39 : That's 3.4 IS2s vs KT+JP

Panther+KT= 380+175= 555 / 0.66= 840.9/230= 3.66 : That's 3.7 IS2s vs KT+Panther

2 Panthers= 80+175+175= 430 / 0.66= 651.52/230= 2.82 : That's 2.8 IS2s vs 2 Panthers

The thing is the Soviet player will most of the time build others stuff like Tier building and T34/su85 etc...

To get the KT, you just need to build all the Tier which you definitively need to do your game.

Nothing wrong, but since it's a game, to be fair units should be measured up to their price, and it's not when it has the same armor as IS2 but almost twice as expensive

So 720/260 is almost twice as much as 640/230? If you want to throw in BS like adding up the truck costs, then you should also add in what the soviet player would have to buy to get the same utility (field hospital upgrade, roughly 2 CE's to repair as fast as a truck, at least two AA halftracks to simulate the Panzer Schwerer), and every allied player should be able to make a FHQ that is both repairable and stronger than any ambient building.

The OKW gets those abilities without losing popcap, while the Soviet gets only the healing without losing popcap and the USF doesn't even get that.

The KT does have 50% more damage (240vs160), 25% more health (1280vs1040), and two additional levels of veterancy for ~10% more cost, plus it is non-doctrinal.

So 720/260 is almost twice as much as 640/230? If you want to throw in BS like adding up the truck costs, then you should also add in what the soviet player would have to buy to get the same utility (field hospital upgrade, roughly 2 CE's to repair as fast as a truck, at least two AA halftracks to simulate the Panzer Schwerer), and every allied player should be able to make a FHQ that is both repairable and stronger than any ambient building.

The OKW gets those abilities without losing popcap, while the Soviet gets only the healing without losing popcap and the USF doesn't even get that.

The KT does have 50% more damage (240vs160), 25% more health (1280vs1040), and two additional levels of veterancy for ~10% more cost, plus it is non-doctrinal.

And you will tech to it even if you do not need to, just by playing your regular game.

So 720/260 is almost twice as much as 640/230?

Well, he talked about how much do u need to spend resources to get IS-2 and Tiger II on field. This is kinda unfair change IMO, Soviets can deal with KT, USF cant. So they just created a new problem to solve one. reverse KT to old state, buff USF AT and buff zooks(!) and give them a jumbo. Obers: leave them like this but make 380 mp, and if they nerfed mg 34 they should nerf m1919 but just for rifles, they should leave m1919 for paras as is.
Buff pzgrens for ostheer, so they can take a hit and teching should be little cheaper with buffing panzerwerfer, and bum. U got alot better balance situation. Still IMO