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PTRS now OP?

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5 Apr 2015, 23:19 PM
#401
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



No different to the OKW walking three obers into a maxim squad, which instantly dies, and even if you mash retreat they keep cycling picking the gun up and then the OKW player gets 5 free fuel (and possibly 15 muni)

Massive infantry arriving at a single MG ruin it, period.


It doesn't instantly die, at all. You see them and you can retreat, unless they are quite close you will normally get away. The PTRS problem is that the cons just look at the gun for a second, and then it evaporates.

Also obers are expensive, as in really expensive. Cons are just 240 MP each, and get 2 PTRS's for 60 muni.

3 Obers = 1200 MP, you can get 5 cons for the same price. 5 cons = 10 PTRS's at 40 damage each = 400 damage a volley. Far more than the health of the crew weapon.
5 Apr 2015, 23:21 PM
#402
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

I watched many matches, i tested them a lot, yes they are better, but still not a lot of people use those cmdrs why ? Because they are good but not op. «Strangely» in 3v3 or 4vs4, i rather see the same old commanders...

Is it a game breaking change ? Absolutely not. It's just make those those commanders less garbage that's all.

Only the kids used to win easy matches are whining...

Learn to #adapt.


You know there are other modes than 3v3, 4v4...where balance is different.

On-topic: Cons should use a different PTRS version (maybe less accurate).
6 Apr 2015, 00:01 AM
#403
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

I don't understand.

People, you're taking the one public example we have and are analyzing it to death. Examine the broader context of this. The PTRS shouldn't be doing what it's doing atm. This isn't intended.

6 Apr 2015, 00:30 AM
#404
avatar of G4bb4_G4nd4lf
Donator 33

Posts: 658


Also obers are expensive, as in really expensive. Cons are just 240 MP each, and get 2 PTRS's for 60 muni.


It's 50MU :foreveralone:



6 Apr 2015, 00:55 AM
#405
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

Seriously, spending ammo on units doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean that they become immune to their supposed hardcounter.

If you blob and run into an HMG AND YOU DON'T STOP to blob those squads shouldn't win without any action from the player.

Unfortunately, PTRS allow players to do exactly that. Blob, run into HMGs and destroy them without any effort.

4 squads of anything (except Obers) running into an M2HB in green cover will also get suppressed. The difference is that you still need to use nades or try to move your squads out of the firing zone. You still have to do something.

I found out that 4 Obers will wipe any HMG in green cover within seconds. Suppression should have a stronger negative effect on accuracy IMO. Suppression should also reduce range of grenades by ~50% (or completely disable them?).


A 'hard counter' is not the same as 'immune to the thing it hard counters in any number forever and ever'

A PaK 43 is a hard counter to mediums but gets swarmed. Same with Jagdtigers, Elephants. All hard counters, all get overwhelmed.

Overwhelming is a very real thing and is always going to happen. One 'hardcounter' to blobs does not mean, for example, you can plant down 3MG's on Minsk Pocket but that does not mean you get to say GG and go home.

Just because you are a unit designed to hard counter another unit does not mean you can just carve through any absurdly exaggerated disparity of forces.

MG's are not a one unit hard counter to blobs anyway. They are a blob suppressiog tool that mean all your screening infantry- which should take the first volley of fire anyway, can mop up the straggelers. Infantry SUPPORT weapon, not rambo. If you left a lone MG on a flank, you did it wrong.

The best thing to balance PTRS would probably be to revert the accuracy buff and increase penetration instead so that PTRS feel more like AT weapons.

It makes me laugh when I read the patch notes and see how Relic intended to "encourage combined arms" and "reduce the effectiveness of blobbing". They did quite the opposite.


Lordy no. Even more pen in tow, the PTRS is going to be a horrible AT weapon because of how low its overall DPS is. Not to mention all the crying about how 'Omg AT rifle am pen my bootiful Krupp Stehl' that would invariably happen.

The PTRS was changed, if you read the patch notes, because guards were vastly under-preforming at their role of elite infantry. They came at a high cost with terrible DPS and even 120 muni didn't make them worth a damn, and now button has also been nerfed into oblivion (Whilst glorious axis Target Weak Point remains a one click kill on most all tanks in the game.)

It was expressly to make the PTRS a potent support weapon for guards riflemen, able to engage infantry and lightly armored targets (scout cars, cars, halftracks, and yes, weapon teams) effectively. Just like, you know, an AT rifle. The predecessor to the anti materiel rifle. They're now working like they always should have done. And frankly, guards have always done this to team weapons anyway, it's just nobody noticed because they were god awful.

The only problem, as before stated, is the ready availability to conscripts. Guards you can't wander round with dozens of, conscripts you can.
6 Apr 2015, 00:57 AM
#406
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
Get a lot of mortars. It works pretty well.
6 Apr 2015, 01:04 AM
#407
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

Do you know what the fix to conscript PTRS packages that I actually want to see is?

Cons allowed to pay 90MU for looted panzershrecks and immunity to commissars cold instead. No more crying about them wiping weapon teams, they're allowed a proper AT weapon, no more cheap outfitting a huge blob. It'd be almost like being as good as OKW. Right? Right.
6 Apr 2015, 01:10 AM
#408
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

Do you know what the fix to conscript PTRS packages that I actually want to see is?

Cons allowed to pay 90MU for looted panzershrecks and immunity to commissars cold instead. No more crying about them wiping weapon teams, they're allowed a proper AT weapon, no more cheap outfitting a huge blob. It'd be almost like being as good as OKW. Right? Right.


That day will come when Soviets actually start to bleed manpower.

I'm currently hating the new PTRS simply because of its damage spikes though. PGs already had trouble vs rifle infantry at their own effective range of mid, but now everything seems to be able to kill them by looking at them.
6 Apr 2015, 01:17 AM
#409
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

If PTRS are over performing right now then no doubt they should be adjusted. But they should still remain a valuable weapon. Because before this patch that wasn't the case.
It's Easter now so I wasn't be able to play the game enough so o can form my own oppinion.
How PTRS behave in 1v1 as o font really care about large team games?
6 Apr 2015, 05:05 AM
#410
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

PTRS have the same damage as a Gren Kar with a better profile at mid, and a little worst at close/far.

If you think THAT is overperforming, i guess the same can be said about JLI (which snipes at 75-80% health). RNG guys. You'll remember the times your squads gets "sniped" but not the amount of times it miss.

The problem is the PTRS destroying crewed weapons, not it's DPS vs infantry or vehicles.
6 Apr 2015, 05:22 AM
#411
avatar of Burts

Posts: 1702

PTRS have the same damage as a Gren Kar with a better profile at mid, and a little worst at close/far.

If you think THAT is overperforming, i guess the same can be said about JLI (which snipes at 75-80% health). RNG guys. You'll remember the times your squads gets "sniped" but not the amount of times it miss.

The problem is the PTRS destroying crewed weapons, not it's DPS vs infantry or vehicles.



This.
6 Apr 2015, 05:26 AM
#412
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

PTRS have the same damage as a Gren Kar with a better profile at mid, and a little worst at close/far.

If you think THAT is overperforming, i guess the same can be said about JLI (which snipes at 75-80% health). RNG guys. You'll remember the times your squads gets "sniped" but not the amount of times it miss.

The problem is the PTRS destroying crewed weapons, not it's DPS vs infantry or vehicles.


The PTRS does 40 damage, the Gren Kar does 16 damage.
6 Apr 2015, 05:30 AM
#413
avatar of kamk
Donator 11

Posts: 764

PTRS have the same damage as a Gren Kar with a better profile at mid, and a little worst at close/far.

If you think THAT is overperforming, i guess the same can be said about JLI (which snipes at 75-80% health). RNG guys. You'll remember the times your squads gets "sniped" but not the amount of times it miss.

The problem is the PTRS destroying crewed weapons, not it's DPS vs infantry or vehicles.

IMO the damage itself isn't too much of a problem, to me at least, more the combination of everything.

JLIs don't wreck weapon teams, while being also a hard counter to light vehicles, and even to mediums slightly.

And what's even the point of the DP up for guards now?
I just hope they adjust it somehow, while it still remains a decent light AT as it is atm.
6 Apr 2015, 05:50 AM
#414
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

DPS is not everything, otherwise there would be no difference if the Elefant does 640 dmg per shot, but its reload is doubled - right?
6 Apr 2015, 06:55 AM
#415
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 353



The PTRS does 40 damage, the Gren Kar does 16 damage.


Kar98K able fire 2-3 shot before PTRS Fire 1 shot
6 Apr 2015, 07:15 AM
#416
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

PTRS was mistakenly changed because it doesn't serve its purpose now.

Fix:

Step one - reset PTRS to initial prepatch values
Step two - increse PTRS penetration value
Step 3 - Done.
6 Apr 2015, 07:31 AM
#417
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

That still makes Guards shit against Infantry, which was the point of making this change
6 Apr 2015, 07:35 AM
#418
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

PTRS have the same damage as a Gren Kar with a better profile at mid, and a little worst at close/far.

If you think THAT is overperforming, i guess the same can be said about JLI (which snipes at 75-80% health). RNG guys. You'll remember the times your squads gets "sniped" but not the amount of times it miss.

The problem is the PTRS destroying crewed weapons, not it's DPS vs infantry or vehicles.
,

You are wrong. guards with PTRS/lmg beats Ober with lmg head on. That should not be like that and it is fair enough considering their price difference, time they arrive, and teching Obers require and guards not.
6 Apr 2015, 07:35 AM
#419
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440



an hour long if you're interested.

2 KT's
nuked.
Raketens
super nuked
the luchs was probably my favourite.
nuked to hell.

I think I just snapped. I really don't want to play anymore.


so you lost a match? boo hoo
6 Apr 2015, 08:21 AM
#420
avatar of kamk
Donator 11

Posts: 764

That still makes Guards shit against Infantry, which was the point of making this change

And the dp lmg upgrade is just for decoration?

Guards even beat LMG Grens easily, and that doesn't even consider their behavior of wrecking team weapons completely, or being 5 men squads, or having light AT, or adding the DP LMG.



PTRS Accuracy increased from 0.03 / 0.0425 / 0.055 to 0.22 / 0.50 / 0.60
> even Stevie Wonder would see that buffing like this causes issues.
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