Real Talk: Panther
26 Mar 2015, 18:30 PM
#221
Posts: 419
Plus they already tried the nerf blitz and it became an utterly useless ability , utterly useless as in had no effect when used , none, nada, zilch. It was such a horrendous nerf that they un-nerfed it, which is ultra rare when it comes to relic's nerf hammer. That's how bad a nerf it was. Really. So I think you are fighting a battle already lost with advocating a blitz nerf.
26 Mar 2015, 18:31 PM
#222
Posts: 521
Then give it overdrine engine crit (same as ram) after using it.
And that's a mistake. That's the whole risk for going solo. That's your mistake for getting into trouble.
If blitz was an offensive ability only castable prior to combat, it would be more logical. But it's just the perfect excuse for, oh crap i made a mistake, save me button. Reverse blitz me the hell out of here.
"Other issues, such as awkward movement behavior or unrealistic accuracy, made the ability feel a bit cheap and magical."
Two brilliant ideas here man. I really like the idea of blitz usable when outside combat.
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26 Mar 2015, 18:33 PM
#223
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
Blitz is dependent on what tank it's on. If you put Blitz on a Kubel it would not be OP. If you put it on a Tiger or a Panther it is extremely potent. Furthermore, Axis have Schrecks to deal with Allied armour.
Blitz + high armour = tank alive that would have died otherwise = veterancy preserved = late game dominance, even if we disregard better infantry AT support.
KT and regular Tiger would benefit from a different sort of ability. Or reduce their base speed so that Blitz has a point on them. If you want a heavy tank, fine, you should get a heavy tank. A heavy tank. (It is great that Axis gets to live with all the advantages of heavies without any of the disadvantages.)
In 1v1s the numbers are small enough to make this not matter. In team games this is an utter balance breaker. You drown the Axis in mediums or indirect fire early on or you lose the game.
Blitz + high armour = tank alive that would have died otherwise = veterancy preserved = late game dominance, even if we disregard better infantry AT support.
KT and regular Tiger would benefit from a different sort of ability. Or reduce their base speed so that Blitz has a point on them. If you want a heavy tank, fine, you should get a heavy tank. A heavy tank. (It is great that Axis gets to live with all the advantages of heavies without any of the disadvantages.)
In 1v1s the numbers are small enough to make this not matter. In team games this is an utter balance breaker. You drown the Axis in mediums or indirect fire early on or you lose the game.
26 Mar 2015, 18:46 PM
#224
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Blitz is dependent on what tank it's on. If you put Blitz on a Kubel it would not be OP. If you put it on a Tiger or a Panther it is extremely potent. Furthermore, Axis have Schrecks to deal with Allied armour.
Blitz + high armour = tank alive that would have died otherwise = veterancy preserved = late game dominance, even if we disregard better infantry AT support.
KT and regular Tiger would benefit from a different sort of ability. Or reduce their base speed so that Blitz has a point on them. If you want a heavy tank, fine, you should get a heavy tank. A heavy tank. (It is great that Axis gets to live with all the advantages of heavies without any of the disadvantages.)
In 1v1s the numbers are small enough to make this not matter. In team games this is an utter balance breaker. You drown the Axis in mediums or indirect fire early on or you lose the game.
Not really, Allied late game is fine, but it's much harder for the average player to pull off if you have a USF heavy team without P47's.
The secret as has been discussed before, is getting rid of veteran ability's that are just lazly slapped on every unit and replacing them with abilities that help fill the weakness's of the tank it's tied to.
And the fastest heavy tank in the game is the KV1, followed by the IS2. The KT is the slowest tank in the game.
26 Mar 2015, 19:03 PM
#225
Posts: 1637
Not really, Allied late game is fine, but it's much harder for the average player to pull off if you have a USF heavy team without P47's.
The secret as has been discussed before, is getting rid of veteran ability's that are just lazly slapped on every unit and replacing them with abilities that help fill the weakness's of the tank it's tied to.
And the fastest heavy tank in the game is the KV1, followed by the IS2. The KT is the slowest tank in the game.
Just wanted to point out something in your logic.
Fine IF (only one possible doctrine selection)
I would not call that fine.
Ost mid game is fine if CAS is selected in 1v1 vs USF. No balance needed....
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
26 Mar 2015, 19:30 PM
#226
Posts: 300
Not really, Allied late game is fine, but it's much harder for the average player to pull off if you have a USF heavy team without P47's.
The secret as has been discussed before, is getting rid of veteran ability's that are just lazly slapped on every unit and replacing them with abilities that help fill the weakness's of the tank it's tied to.
And the fastest heavy tank in the game is the KV1, followed by the IS2. The KT is the slowest tank in the game.
Im almost certain in other threads you have said allied lategame is not "Fine" and abilities that fill weakness's of a vehicles? Uh we already that its called Blitz and we see how thats working.....
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26 Mar 2015, 19:31 PM
#227
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Just wanted to point out something in your logic.
Fine IF (only one possible doctrine selection)
I would not call that fine.
Ost mid game is fine if CAS is selected in 1v1 vs USF. No balance needed....
USF obviously needs help to make late game less micro intensive, but Soviets right now are fine. Relic isn't going to stop them from being call in dependent.
Ultimately as pointed out in the Pershing thread a non-doc heavy tank you can only get after fully teching would help immensely.
26 Mar 2015, 19:32 PM
#228
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Im almost certain in other threads you have said allied lategame is not "Fine" and abilities that fill weakness's of a vehicles? Uh we already that its called Blitz and we see how thats working.....
USF late game is more micro intensive than any other faction. This is something that can be fixed rather easily through introduction of new units or making the Jackson more reliable against heavy armor while making it less stupid good versus medium armor.
26 Mar 2015, 19:55 PM
#229
Posts: 521
USF obviously needs help to make late game less micro intensive, but Soviets right now are fine. Relic isn't going to stop them from being call in dependent.
Ultimately as pointed out in the Pershing thread a non-doc heavy tank you can only get after fully teching would help immensely.
Well they should make an attempt. It's not too hard to do, I mean I could do it.
Find out about my redesign of all four factions, with more to come!
Feel free to contact me regarding your Attribute Editor-related questions.
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26 Mar 2015, 20:26 PM
#230
Posts: 721
Then give it overdrine engine crit (same as ram) after using it.
And that's a mistake. That's the whole risk for going solo. That's your mistake for getting into trouble.
If Engine critical was to ensue one might as well change the name of the ability to "260 Suicide charge". Maybe save that for the Japs expansion.
And I don't think it should be that unforgiving to go operate without support with the Tiger. It is supposed to be tough. It's not the same with the IS-2. You can "oh shit" and reverse and make it out with the IS-2 most of the time while most of the time the Tiger dies. Not right I don't think.
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
26 Mar 2015, 21:07 PM
#231
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
If Engine critical was to ensue one might as well change the name of the ability to "260 Suicide charge". Maybe save that for the Japs expansion.
It's not engine critical, it seems you never "failed" to ram something in order to gain a quick boost to catch up something ahead. You are a bit slower (you can still move) but you'll recover automatically over time. Amount of slow and duration could be tweaked easily. It could not affect your max speed and just acceleration, etc.
And I don't think it should be that unforgiving to go operate without support with the Tiger. It is supposed to be tough. It's not the same with the IS-2. You can "oh shit" and reverse and make it out with the IS-2 most of the time while most of the time the Tiger dies. Not right I don't think.
-TTK of pak40 and zis is equal against IS2 and Tiger. TWP is 100% chance of penetration.
-37-42% chance to pen with faust vs 33% to pen with AT nades
-PV 70-59% vs IS2. Su85 is 67-60%
-AT infantry (shrecks) 48-43% vs PTRS (?)...
It's basically the same => unsupported tank > dead tank*
*RNG god not included.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
27 Mar 2015, 00:26 AM
#232
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
Fine, they can nerf blitz, I don't care about that. If this will end your "axis armor OP" whinings.
thanks for your approval. OK Relic, you heard the man, you got a greenlight to nerf a.k.a. fix blitz.
Plus they already tried the nerf blitz and it became an utterly useless ability , utterly useless as in had no effect when used , none, nada, zilch. It was such a horrendous nerf that they un-nerfed it, which is ultra rare when it comes to relic's nerf hammer. That's how bad a nerf it was. Really. So I think you are fighting a battle already lost with advocating a blitz nerf.
when did acceleration mechanic fixed? was it with the blitz nerf or slightly after? anyway, i find overdrive on m3 still useful especially when getting out of pfaust range by changing direction. same way i felt about nerfed blitz. but nope. ppl want nascar or it is just a spit in their faces in it?
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27 Mar 2015, 00:41 AM
#233
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Blitzkrieg doesn't need to get nerfed into the ground, but it definitely can't stay on the Panther and the heavies.
Alternatively just give absolutely all tanks capture territory as their vet ability. Who needs infantry?
Alternatively just give absolutely all tanks capture territory as their vet ability. Who needs infantry?
27 Mar 2015, 05:36 AM
#234
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
27 Mar 2015, 06:38 AM
#235
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
thanks for your approval. OK Relic, you heard the man, you got a greenlight to nerf a.k.a. fix blitz.
Don't mention it. You owe me a beer though
. And not an allied one.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
27 Mar 2015, 09:55 AM
#236
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Why don't we reverse stat for Jackson, SU85 and JPZ4.
Max damage and Max pen at max range and the pen/damage reduce with the range. At close range it cannot reliably pen/damage. Or another than pen/damage (like high % chance to miss the target the closer it is) way but with the same finality, those units remains strong at max range and weak at close range.
So the Panther become a real tank hunter that need to hunt and come at close range and kill its target and tank destroyers have to stay at max range to be rewarded for the same effect. Here we could have a real micro strategy between 2 different types of unit.
Max damage and Max pen at max range and the pen/damage reduce with the range. At close range it cannot reliably pen/damage. Or another than pen/damage (like high % chance to miss the target the closer it is) way but with the same finality, those units remains strong at max range and weak at close range.
So the Panther become a real tank hunter that need to hunt and come at close range and kill its target and tank destroyers have to stay at max range to be rewarded for the same effect. Here we could have a real micro strategy between 2 different types of unit.
27 Mar 2015, 10:36 AM
#237
Posts: 721
KT and regular Tiger would benefit from a different sort of ability. Or reduce their base speed so that Blitz has a point on them.
They are slow as it is. They would be crawling and enemy tanks would simply drive by and shoot them in the back.
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
27 Mar 2015, 10:37 AM
#238
Posts: 144
Why don't we reverse stat for Jackson, SU85 and JPZ4.
Max damage and Max pen at max range and the pen/damage reduce with the range. At close range it cannot reliably pen/damage. Or another than pen/damage (like high % chance to miss the target the closer it is) way but with the same finality, those units remains strong at max range and weak at close range.
So the Panther become a real tank hunter that need to hunt and come at close range and kill its target and tank destroyers have to stay at max range to be rewarded for the same effect. Here we could have a real micro strategy between 2 different types of unit.
That would mean that tank snare (At nade) would have to be really effective against armor. If not, that would mean that Panther could just rush the TD, destroy it, and back thx to lolblitz, in a more effective way that it can do now.
27 Mar 2015, 11:55 AM
#239
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
They are slow as it is. They would be crawling and enemy tanks would simply drive by and shoot them in the back.
Actually they(as well as IS-2) are fast enough to make sure that mediums will never flank them, unless they get a jump on their rear or use blitz in axis meds case.
I personally see nothing bad with heavies getting slowed down, as I've said multiple times, they need to have a meaningful disadvantage over meds.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
27 Mar 2015, 12:41 PM
#240
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Actually they(as well as IS-2) are fast enough to make sure that mediums will never flank them, unless they get a jump on their rear or use blitz in axis meds case.
I personally see nothing bad with heavies getting slowed down, as I've said multiple times, they need to have a meaningful disadvantage over meds.
All the heavies in the game have worse acceleration and top speed than mediums. This is already the case.
The Tiger nor is the KT that hard to kill for Soviets tanks to having a fairly large amount of options, the only real person hurting here is USF because their tanks are to fragile to last during a flank.
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