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russian armor

Command Panther

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23 Mar 2015, 23:35 PM
#41
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Same armor, might have different acc on the move. Edit (someone said it)

@Alex: vet is basically the same besides last levels.

Vet0: Aura 20 sight range, +10% speed +10% ac/de-celeration
Vet1: Unlocks the 'Combat Blitz' ability
Vet2: +10% armour, +20% health +10% weapon rotation speed Aura: +20% accuracy
Vet3: -10% reload, +10% rotation speed +10% ac/de-celeration Aura: -20% reload
Vet4: Aura: +5 range
Vet5: Aura: Infantry affected too

Vet1: Unlocks the 'Combat Blitz' ability
Vet2: +10% armour, +20% health, +40% weapon rotation speed
Vet3: -30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +30% ac/de-celeration
Vet4: +10% range -25% scatter
Vet5: +53.85% accuracy on the move, +45.8% sight range


The 20% accuracy and 20% reload are added to the aura not the C-Panther.



23 Mar 2015, 23:36 PM
#42
avatar of Sarantini
Honorary Member Badge
Donator 22

Posts: 2181

There should be an easier way to copy that
And yeh, the command panther doesn't benefit from it's own aura
23 Mar 2015, 23:38 PM
#43
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Mar 2015, 23:31 PMVuther

The Command Panther isn't affected by its own aura though right? So the -20% reload that went into the aura is still a pretty legitimate difference between the it and the base one?


This is true, but in larger games CmP can buff other CmP. The horror...the horror.
23 Mar 2015, 23:38 PM
#44
avatar of Brachiaraidos

Posts: 627

The 20% accuracy and 20% reload are added to the aura not the C-Panther.


Can you even into reading.

That bit where before the 20% is says "Aura:" in the text you quoted?

That means it's an aura effect.

Learning is kool.
23 Mar 2015, 23:38 PM
#45
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

I am not complaining that the CmP ability is too good (though it is very good) I am complaining that in larger games a unit designed to buff only your own armor is too effective because it helps everyone.

Yeah, from my experience in RTSes, it seems an aura has to be really crappy to not be amazing in scenarios with plenty of targets to benefit from it. The examples of auras of a more minor degree are hard to notice, but the math tends to simply say that they'll be amazing.
23 Mar 2015, 23:38 PM
#46
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



This makes no sense. Of course by definition it is hypothetical this is a forum. Also just because you use it to beat on IS2 and T34/85's because you don't understand how powerful it is to be able to 2 shot a jackson does not make the ability worse. It is also a hypothetical situation that a Jackson shoots at a PIV with MT.

I am not complaining that the CmP ability is too good (though it is very good) I am complaining that in larger games a unit designed to buff only your own armor is too effective because it helps everyone.

We are not asking for nerfs we are asking the unit be in line with other units! You should not have a elephant that moves faster shoots faster, is more accurate, and see farther. While the Allies have...literally NOTHING like this.

Please stop saying fuel starved. You can convert munitions to fuel, and you only need to upgrade volks so in fact OKW has some of the most efficient fuel costs in the entire faction design.


What? The conversion is insanely dumb until the late game because you will be buying shreks for a while. It's really only possible when you have support from your Ostheer friends.

It's not an Elefant, it doesn't do Elefant damage, it doesn't have the Elefants pen, and it doesn't have the range.

Nobody says Allies shouldn't get a command tank, I would be partial to the KV1 being converted to a command tank.
23 Mar 2015, 23:40 PM
#47
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



This is true, but in larger games CmP can buff other CmP. The horror...the horror.

*Shudders*

Fair point.

I hope those things at least can't stack...
23 Mar 2015, 23:40 PM
#48
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Can you even into reading.

That bit where before the 20% is says "Aura:" in the text you quoted?

That means it's an aura effect.

Learning is kool.


And the C-Panther isn't affect by it's own Aura's so it's vet bonus's to itself are worse than the regular Panthers. That's the trade off for the Command Bonus it gives.

*Shudders*

Fair point.

I hope those things at least can't stack...


It doesn't stack, but the CPIV's bonus stacks with it.
23 Mar 2015, 23:43 PM
#49
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1



What? The conversion is insanely dumb until the late game because you will be buying shreks for a while. It's really only possible when you have support from your Ostheer friends.

It's not an Elefant, it doesn't do Elefant damage, it doesn't have the Elefants pen, and it doesn't have the range.

Nobody says Allies shouldn't get a command tank, I would be partial to the KV1 being converted to a command tank.


?

Do you read anything people write or do you just type out the response you wanted them to say to you.

Who is talking about elephants?

And no I don't want to balance an unfair unit with another unfair unit.
23 Mar 2015, 23:47 PM
#50
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



?

Do you read anything people write or do you just type out the response you wanted them to say to you.

Who is talking about elephants?

And no I don't want to balance an unfair unit with another unfair unit.




This makes no sense. Of course by definition it is hypothetical this is a forum. Also just because you use it to beat on IS2 and T34/85's because you don't understand how powerful it is to be able to 2 shot a jackson does not make the ability worse. It is also a hypothetical situation that a Jackson shoots at a PIV with MT.

I am not complaining that the CmP ability is too good (though it is very good) I am complaining that in larger games a unit designed to buff only your own armor is too effective because it helps everyone.

We are not asking for nerfs we are asking the unit be in line with other units! You should not have a elephant that moves faster shoots faster, is more accurate, and see farther. While the Allies have...literally NOTHING like this.

Please stop saying fuel starved. You can convert munitions to fuel, and you only need to upgrade volks so in fact OKW has some of the most efficient fuel costs in the entire faction design.


It's not an "unfair" unit. Allies should have some sort of command tank, and the KV1 would fit perfectly.
23 Mar 2015, 23:50 PM
#51
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1





It's not an "unfair" unit. Allies should have some sort of command tank, and the KV1 would fit perfectly.


The elefant quote was to remind you which unit it could buff. I did not compare its tank killing prowess. So if I mentioned penals that would mean we should compare it directly with that?

Seriously...
23 Mar 2015, 23:54 PM
#52
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



The elefant quote was to remind you which unit it could buff. I did not compare its tank killing prowess. So if I mentioned penals that would mean we should compare it directly with that?

Seriously...


Well you didn't clarify at all, but it being able to buff armor is fairly central to it's design.

Remember: It's only 30 fuel less than an IS2 or Tiger.

24 Mar 2015, 00:04 AM
#53
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I think people are missing the point on this thread.

It's not about how "good" CPV is or it's bonuses, rather about how much area buffs scales with bigger modes.

Basically what it has been ask since the release of the game, scale balance according to number of players involved.
Opel Blitz is an example of a change meant to hugely improve 2v2+ games. Bonus to allied units should be lessen the higher amount of players involved.
24 Mar 2015, 00:07 AM
#54
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

The problem is that if it only affect the player it would be almost useless because OKW normally doesn't have very much armor on the field to even buff. Normally the only thing the Panther will be buffing is a light vehicle and maybe another Panther.

In 3's and 4's obviously there is much more armor to buff, but this just means Allies should have an equivalent to make it more "fair".
24 Mar 2015, 00:11 AM
#55
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

At vet 5, if it gets there, the CmdP effectively wins games just by being around. Infantry bonuses on grens or MG's is amazingly powerful. (Before saying don't let it get vet 5 I would like to point out that a binomial situation in which the question: Does he have a CmdP at vet 5 -> I lose, if not -> I can still win, is extremely poor game design).


before you use that as a balance argument i'd like to remind you (don't have the quote on hand) that bC said that if space marine go to t3 and shit out terminators against eldar they deserved to win.
24 Mar 2015, 00:35 AM
#56
avatar of United

Posts: 253

I think people are missing the point on this thread.

It's not about how "good" CPV is or it's bonuses, rather about how much area buffs scales with bigger modes.

Basically what it has been ask since the release of the game, scale balance according to number of players involved.
Opel Blitz is an example of a change meant to hugely improve 2v2+ games. Bonus to allied units should be lessen the higher amount of players involved.


The point of this thread is to score ego points by creating hypothetical scenarios over somehow getting a 10 cp panther tank to vet 5, and the "ez win" according to legend that it gives.
24 Mar 2015, 00:41 AM
#57
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

The problem is that if it only affect the player it would be almost useless because OKW normally doesn't have very much armor on the field to even buff. Normally the only thing the Panther will be buffing is a light vehicle and maybe another Panther.

In 3's and 4's obviously there is much more armor to buff, but this just means Allies should have an equivalent to make it more "fair".


That is the OKW players problem. CmP is still useful in 1v1, just not a no brain decision. Whereas in 3v3+ I really don't see a reason for at least one player not to just select it as soon as the game starts. It was designed to give only 1 other vehicle a buff as it is still a really good front line unit. If it was supposed to be rear guard it would have to be weaker so you could kill it once in a while.
24 Mar 2015, 00:41 AM
#58
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Mar 2015, 00:35 AMUnited


The point of this thread is to score ego points by creating hypothetical scenarios over somehow getting a 10 cp panther tank to vet 5, and the "ez win" according to legend that it gives.


Then you did not read my first post, or any of the subsequent posts.

Am I winning ego points? Where can I see them, is it in my profile?
24 Mar 2015, 00:58 AM
#59
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



That is the OKW players problem. CmP is still useful in 1v1, just not a no brain decision. Whereas in 3v3+ I really don't see a reason for at least one player not to just select it as soon as the game starts. It was designed to give only 1 other vehicle a buff as it is still a really good front line unit. If it was supposed to be rear guard it would have to be weaker so you could kill it once in a while.


If it was only intended to buff only 1 other unit then it would do so. It was created because Relic wanted the factions to have synergy with each other.

It's the same reason Soviets can reinforce at the USF ambulance, recrew airborne dropped weapons, and recrew USF tanks.
24 Mar 2015, 00:58 AM
#60
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

the biggest problem with it for me is the problem with okw as whole.

ridiculous vet bonuses. not just vet 4 and 5.

lets nerf blitz and overdrive so they make sense. oh, lets revert blitz somewhat but not overdrive. why do ligth vehicles need them anyway? oh and lets add old versions of them back using names such as "step on it" and "combat blitz"...
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