Command Panther

If it was only intended to buff only 1 other unit then it would do so. It was created because Relic wanted the factions to have synergy with each other.

It's the same reason Soviets can reinforce at the USF ambulance, recrew airborne dropped weapons, and recrew USF tanks.

now if only they can buy and equip their weapons too, yes to conscripts with bars and bazookas.

on the issue of command panther, my only problem its a freaking panther which by itself is already amazing. give a command is2 that buffs everything while wrecking stuff, this forum will burn and drown in a massive tide of tears.

now imagine a panther that is already almost impregnable from the front, having longer than normal gun ranges, now its also able to buff units? how do allies actually get to it without waiting for it to make mistakes?

the biggest problem with it for me is the problem with okw as whole.

ridiculous vet bonuses. not just vet 4 and 5.

lets nerf blitz and overdrive so they make sense. oh, lets revert blitz somewhat but not overdrive. why do ligth vehicles need them anyway? oh and lets add old versions of them back using names such as "step on it" and "combat blitz"...

I think Allied vet ability's should be improved, not OKW and Ost vet ability's nerfed.

Buffing to bring balance is much more stable and easier to do than nerfing. Many developers have learned this the hard way.

Then you did not read my first post, or any of the subsequent posts.

Am I winning ego points? Where can I see them, is it in my profile?

My post wasn't directed to you but Ill throw some responses to your first post.

A vet 2 or higher AC with spotting scope can see almost 80% of medium sized maps without shot blockers just from this unit.

My understanding is that AC w spotting scope already does close to that without the assistance of a command Panther

Panthers with blitz and a CmdP around are so fast that allied tanks cannot even attempt to keep up. Making hit and run tank play infuriating because the Allies cannot prevent a Panther from penetrating deep into their lines.

This is just regular Panther stuff, Just with a 10% speed increase from the Command panther


At vet 5, if it gets there, the CmdP effectively wins games just by being around. Infantry bonuses on grens or MG's is amazingly powerful. (Before saying don't let it get vet 5 I would like to point out that a binomial situation in which the question: Does he have a CmdP at vet 5 -> I lose, if not -> I can still win, is extremely poor game design).

Command Panther does not give anything to Infantry until it reaches vet 5, a once in a blue moon deal because:
The tank unlocks at 10 cps, around same time heavies come out.

You have to earn the exp by participating in combat frequently, (Tank on Tank combat to actually make meaningful gains)

Likely the game just ends before Vet 5 can be achieved. How often have you seen vet 3 heavy tanks, let alone a vet 5 one?

As for poor game design, yes, Relic have it stuck in their heads Allies=Early Axis=late. Hence, Why a Late game focused Allied Faction and a early game focused Axis Faction would do so much for Company of Heroes 2.


I would make this unit only apply to the player's units who controls it. I would argue this should also be true for all Command units. Buffs/costs should only apply to the owner. I cannot prevent my ally from using a Sturm officer, why should I share in his risk?

I agree with this

Also economic manipulation from blitz oil trucks, Luftwaffe supply drops and supply caches affecting allies have completely murdered 3v3 and 4v4 balance since the game came out. I remember people wanted it changed, change didn't come, we got used to it and forgot to complain about it, 2 years later its still here.

Also economic manipulation from blitz oil trucks, Luftwaffe supply drops and supply caches affecting allies have completely murdered 3v3 and 4v4 balance since the game came out. I remember people wanted it changed, change didn't come, we got used to it and forgot to complain about it, 2 years later its still here.

They fixed the Opel Blitzes, actually. Now they only give resources to the player owning it.

The rest are still dumb and prevent me from touching big team games ever.

They fixed the Opel Blitzes, actually. Now they only give resources to the player owning it.

The rest are still dumb and prevent me from touching big team games ever.

I agree Luft drops should only give 66% to OKW players; but caches already only give 66% so there really isn't any nerf needed.

Caches only affecting 1 player would be super easy to abuse, and allow basically one player to dominate the fuel income on his team at the disadvantage of his team mates.

My post wasn't directed to you but Ill throw some responses to your first post.

A vet 2 or higher AC with spotting scope can see almost 80% of medium sized maps without shot blockers just from this unit.

My understanding is that AC w spotting scope already does close to that without the assistance of a command Panther

Panthers with blitz and a CmdP around are so fast that allied tanks cannot even attempt to keep up. Making hit and run tank play infuriating because the Allies cannot prevent a Panther from penetrating deep into their lines.

This is just regular Panther stuff, Just with a 10% speed increase from the Command panther


At vet 5, if it gets there, the CmdP effectively wins games just by being around. Infantry bonuses on grens or MG's is amazingly powerful. (Before saying don't let it get vet 5 I would like to point out that a binomial situation in which the question: Does he have a CmdP at vet 5 -> I lose, if not -> I can still win, is extremely poor game design).

Command Panther does not give anything to Infantry until it reaches vet 5, a once in a blue moon deal because:
The tank unlocks at 10 cps, around same time heavies come out.

You have to earn the exp by participating in combat frequently, (Tank on Tank combat to actually make meaningful gains)

Likely the game just ends before Vet 5 can be achieved. How often have you seen vet 3 heavy tanks, let alone a vet 5 one?

As for poor game design, yes, Relic have it stuck in their heads Allies=Early Axis=late. Hence, Why a Late game focused Allied Faction and a early game focused Axis Faction would do so much for Company of Heroes 2.


I would make this unit only apply to the player's units who controls it. I would argue this should also be true for all Command units. Buffs/costs should only apply to the owner. I cannot prevent my ally from using a Sturm officer, why should I share in his risk?

I agree with this

Also economic manipulation from blitz oil trucks, Luftwaffe supply drops and supply caches affecting allies have completely murdered 3v3 and 4v4 balance since the game came out. I remember people wanted it changed, change didn't come, we got used to it and forgot to complain about it, 2 years later its still here.

You do seem to agree with me in general so I won't spend too much time beating a dead horse, but let me remind you that if you think 10% buffs here and there are not very important keep in mind how much 10% means. If you see 50m but shoot 55m and you get a 10% buff you can now spot for yourself at max firing range (55m). If you also get a 10% acceleration boost added to the fastest tank acceleration in the game you can start to see how good the CmP is around Panther tanks alone. Next to a TA the CmP is outright ridiculous at vet 0, any higher and it's gg.

Now remember that every tank around you also gets these bonuses (and this is vet level 0!), and imagine what starts to happen as you get higher levels of vet.

I would argue the reason you don't see more vet 5 CmP is not because it is hard to get, but because OKW is so dominant in late team games (where these are most likely to occur) that you simply won't have any time to build up the vet because you will steam role the Allies too quickly.

Effectively at vet 0 the CmP gives the equivalent to every tank in the aura of ~4 bulletins for that specific tank alone, after vet 1 that number climbs drastically. I understand when one player has to give up something for this unit it has a tradeoff, but in team games I give up nothing by going for (name any heavy tank) and my ally getting a CmP for me. I get all the buffs, and just to sweeten the deal he can mark vehicles for me. As such, in team games the bonuses are too extreme.

The unit is fine in 1v1 and should function as it does there, to help you get bonuses at the cost of more tanks. Quality over quantity, not quality and quantity with KT's on top.

I already addressed this directly in the post, but if someone gets a vet 5 CmdP you are basically saying they should automatically win. Why not just unlock a button on the command bar that allows them to do so then?

No, I'm saying that if they have a VET5 Commanther they've probably already won because of the amount of the damage they will have had to have done to get to Vet5.

I don't see an issue with this tank

A) With the high fuel cost of the c-panther, PLUS the fuel starved okw, you aren't likely to see another tank on the field for it to use it's aura on for a while, and if you do it's usually just 1 other tank.

B) does not affect infantry until vet5.

Ahhh people have found the next OKW unit to be OP...interesting.

Let me get this straight - I will bring up all "OP"-claims I have read in approximately 3 months.

Stumrpioniere: OP because massive DPS (only viable in early)
Volksgrenadiere: Op because Panzerschreck (still worst basic infantry weak weak early and if wiped in late game replacement is a more hitting blow)
Kubel: Op because so fast and not counterable.(and melts in the face if a 2+ rifles with bars)
Flak-HT: OP because suppresses (Assloader US HT anyone?)
Puma: OP because outranges everyone(I am sorry wat? If not babysitted all the time its dead in seconds.. About range lets have a talk about a 240dmg alpha jackson....)
Stuka: OP because creeping barrage(its expensive and literally a hit and miss unit)
Luchs: OP because rushed its so OP(1 AT gun shuts it down in the perimeter)
Obers: Op because sniping hmgs(a bit strong I agree - yet the only MP choice for OKW to get rid of maxim spam)
Panther: OP because its so fast(expensive)
King Tiger: OP because unkillable(retardly expensive and ask a wehr player without ferdi how he feels about IS2)

and now Command Panther? lol

So to sum this up players think only Puppchen, JpZ4 leig 18 and IR HT are fine.
basically these are 4 shit units (JPZ4 is good on paper but ingame its often lackluster and against 2 tanks its dead for a whopping 135f rarely viable)
I dont trust much in relic but whoa, I am glad they are in charge instead of the playerbase. smh

Ahhh people have found the next OKW unit to be OP...interesting.

Let me get this straight - I will bring up all "OP"-claims I have read in approximately 3 months.

Stumrpioniere: OP because massive DPS (only viable in early)
Volksgrenadiere: Op because Panzerschreck (still worst basic infantry weak weak early and if wiped in late game replacement is a more hitting blow)
Kubel: Op because so fast and not counterable.(and melts in the face if a 2+ rifles with bars)
Flak-HT: OP because suppresses (Assloader US HT anyone?)
Puma: OP because outranges everyone(I am sorry wat? If not babysitted all the time its dead in seconds.. About range lets have a talk about a 240dmg alpha jackson....)
Stuka: OP because creeping barrage(its expensive and literally a hit and miss unit)
Luchs: OP because rushed its so OP(1 AT gun shuts it down in the perimeter)
Obers: Op because sniping hmgs(a bit strong I agree - yet the only MP choice for OKW to get rid of maxim spam)
Panther: OP because its so fast(expensive)
King Tiger: OP because unkillable(retardly expensive and ask a wehr player without ferdi how he feels about IS2)

Literally laughed out loud at this post. U contradict ur own argument

this list sums up why OKW is Overperforming

I dare u to name all the STOCK USF and Sov units that overperform

I guarantee it wont come close to OKW

Literally laughed out loud at this post. U contradict ur own argument

this list sums up why OKW is Overperforming

I dare u to name all the STOCK USF and Sov units that overperform

I guarantee it wont come close to OKW

I already mentioned why I think they most do not overperform the way people make them out to do.

Soviet stock units are a nuisance since relic already stated that by soviet design they are reliant on doctrinal units.

please I've read enough of your posts to know that reading comprehension is not your strength but I beg you. Read->Understand->Post. please

I already mentioned why I think they most do not overperform the way people make them out to do.

Soviet stock units are a nuisance since relic already stated that by soviet design they are reliant on doctrinal units.

please I've read enough of your posts to know that reading comprehension is not your strength but I beg you. Read->Understand->Post. please

Thanks for the complement

Now its my turn

Since your ranks are trash im going to ignore you

Have a nice life

Thanks for the complement

Now its my turn

Since your ranks are trash im going to ignore you

Have a nice life

Oh noooo. How can I live with that? :'( I am seriously troubled now. I mean like super duper troubled.

All These "Pro Allies" which think they are right because of their rank. Much wow

Ahhh people have found the next OKW unit to be OP...interesting.

Let me get this straight - I will bring up all "OP"-claims I have read in approximately 3 months.

Stumrpioniere: OP because massive DPS (only viable in early)
Volksgrenadiere: Op because Panzerschreck (still worst basic infantry weak weak early and if wiped in late game replacement is a more hitting blow)
Kubel: Op because so fast and not counterable.(and melts in the face if a 2+ rifles with bars)
Flak-HT: OP because suppresses (Assloader US HT anyone?)
Puma: OP because outranges everyone(I am sorry wat? If not babysitted all the time its dead in seconds.. About range lets have a talk about a 240dmg alpha jackson....)
Stuka: OP because creeping barrage(its expensive and literally a hit and miss unit)
Luchs: OP because rushed its so OP(1 AT gun shuts it down in the perimeter)
Obers: Op because sniping hmgs(a bit strong I agree - yet the only MP choice for OKW to get rid of maxim spam)
Panther: OP because its so fast(expensive)
King Tiger: OP because unkillable(retardly expensive and ask a wehr player without ferdi how he feels about IS2)

You forgot:

Fallschirmjagers: OP because they spawn behind enemy lines and they are too efective (they are called "terminators" - don't you know?). Only shock troops should be allowed to shred enemy infantry.
IR Halftrack: OP and cheating because reveals enemy units through FOW and you should not be allowed to prepare for incoming tank / infantry blobs.
T4: OP because it's "locking" and "denying" areas from allied blobs and the good fellows on these forums don't have the smallest clue how to deal with it. You should not be allowed to resist on 2-3 sectors with your OKW troops, you need to be baseraped in the first 10 minutes.

Some of these claims of OPness were answered so these counter OKW/"Nazi"(?!?)/Axis brave forum fighters have all the reasons to carry on their holly crusade/jihad/whatever:

JagdTiger: was OP because it was able to shoot through buildings and it had to much range. That nerf was reasonable. At least nerfing ISU too didn't ruin balance.
JLI: they were OP because their G43 made them "to effective". Now they only have one, while the other 3 models have some strange water pistols. Don't see them used to often these days.
Leigh infantry cannon: was OP because... I don't even remember why it was OP but it got nerfed nonetheless

And the both lists can continue but I am bored now.

The fact and necked truth is, that BALANCE doesn't mean to cry in the rain in front of Relic desks to make your victories esier and climb a few places into the ladder like this "Queen Trollchet" guy who treasure his precious place in the ladders thinking this will entitle him to tell you that you know shit about this game while he is a guru. BALANCE measns your victories are equally challanging no matter what faction you play.

And in order to achieve that, does OKW need more nerfs? It does need a few, but not in the way these people think. You nerf units while you create new options, while you diversify the gameplay for the faction you nerfed. That is how you should do it Relic.

Ok Command Panther only for player fielding it, but then apply this rule to every unit and doctrine in the game.

Reinforcing & healing -> Only for your units
Caches -> Only for the player builder them
FHQ -> Only for the player using the doctrine

And suddenly you have less synergy in team games, which will make them less interesting and more dull, like most nerfs, that remove units from game (RIP Pzgrens, Hit the dirt, Guards, USF M3, Partisans, Flame HT, Panzerwerfer and all that ones I forgot to mention)

@JohnnyB True words have been spoken +1

Ahhh people have found the next OKW unit to be OP...interesting.

Let me get this straight - I will bring up all "OP"-claims I have read in approximately 3 months.

Stumrpioniere: OP because massive DPS (only viable in early)
Volksgrenadiere: Op because Panzerschreck (still worst basic infantry weak weak early and if wiped in late game replacement is a more hitting blow)
Kubel: Op because so fast and not counterable.(and melts in the face if a 2+ rifles with bars)
Flak-HT: OP because suppresses (Assloader US HT anyone?)
Puma: OP because outranges everyone(I am sorry wat? If not babysitted all the time its dead in seconds.. About range lets have a talk about a 240dmg alpha jackson....)
Stuka: OP because creeping barrage(its expensive and literally a hit and miss unit)
Luchs: OP because rushed its so OP(1 AT gun shuts it down in the perimeter)
Obers: Op because sniping hmgs(a bit strong I agree - yet the only MP choice for OKW to get rid of maxim spam)
Panther: OP because its so fast(expensive)
King Tiger: OP because unkillable(retardly expensive and ask a wehr player without ferdi how he feels about IS2)

and now Command Panther? lol

So to sum this up players think only Puppchen, JpZ4 leig 18 and IR HT are fine.
basically these are 4 shit units (JPZ4 is good on paper but ingame its often lackluster and against 2 tanks its dead for a whopping 135f rarely viable)
I dont trust much in relic but whoa, I am glad they are in charge instead of the playerbase. smh

1. SP are easy to handle with 2 Cons but combine them with Kubel and Truck and you have 0:00 PzGrens.
2. Vet 5 Volks have similar survability to vet 3 Shocks. I guess Shocks should be most durable infantry.
3. You dont have 2 Rifles with BARs at 1min
4. Flak OP? And by the way, US AA won't wipe full squad in 1 burst.
5. Puma OP? that's new.
6. Stuka OP? Currently it's the best mobile arty, that's all.
7. 1 AT gun is enough Stuart or T70 but not for Luchs with its 400hp.
8. Someone still uses maxim spam?
9. Panther OP?
10. King Tiger OP?

And I really like your signature cause it shows your lack of knowledge about game mechanic or that you were not familiar with that thread
But no worries, I will explain You
Of course, when you catch Obers around the corner it's obvious, but it's not what it was about.
It's about getting close to Obers. While doing this with Shocks, you will lose 2-3 models and 25-50%hp - it's just RNG. If you lose 2 models you will get them. If you lose 3 models, Obers will melt you.
Smoke nade is not an option in fact, cause your squad needs to stand still while throwing grenade which means additional 2secs for Obers to shoot at you, and even then, Obers will just move back so in the end you will push them out of cover but in fact you are not any meter closer to them.

The command panther is quite possibly the single best tank hunter/destroyer unit in the game- better than even the Ace, I think.

It costs 25 fuel more than a regular panther- and IMO the ability to self-spot while maintaining full mobility, something no other vehicle except the tiger ace and the puma can do, would justify the price increase alone.

It has a ridiculous mark target ability- and the justification that it 'only lasts 20 seconds' is silly. With it enabled, the panther alone can two-shot jacksons- which takes less than 7 seconds, assuming you mark before your first shot. All medium tanks except the T3485 die in 3 shots, or 14 seconds. The cmdpanther can very easily take an IS2 head-on with the ability active. And it costs a grand total... of 35 munitions. You can quite literally use it in every single engagement. Seriously if you're buying so many shrecks that you can't afford to use this ability, which costs less than a bundled grenade and is ten times as gamechanging, you're doing something wrong.

And of course there's the aura. I don't have much to add about it, because in 1v1s and 2v2s there isn't usually a whole lot to buff (though elefant + scopes + cmdpanther mark target is pretty hilarious).

I'd say the command panther is let down most by the doctrine it comes in, which isn't really so useful in 1v1. The unit itself is incredible, really. The odd thing is, there's a perfect historical command panther that would fit the same mould as the ostheer command P4- weaker gun but chassis of the same strength.



Schwere Panzerjägerabteilung 653 operated a panther used in the command role, with a panzer 4 turret and gun, on the eastern front in 1944. OKW is technically the western army, but this would be far more unique than just the reskinned superpanther that it is now.

Just my two cents.

I got a suggestion for you guys since Panther Commander is so strong. Replace it with Kubelwagen Commander. This way it won't cause problems anymore.