Fortress Europe

T-34 with 76.2mm gun cannot penetrate the front of a Tiger I at 100m with ease, unless it is using special ammunition.

T-34-85 with either 85mm gun can penetrate the front of a Tiger I at 100m without issue.


Working on the video now.

Yeah, I ment APCR, but it's impossible that it couldn't penetrate at 100m with AP, where do you have that data from?

Yeah, I ment APCR, but it's impossible that it couldn't penetrate at 100m with AP, where do you have that data from?

APCR will be very rare in Fortress Europe, and when available will have a hard limit on usage (via ability).

BR-350B (APBC-HE) could only penetrate 79mm of homogeneous and 82mm of face-hardened armour at 100m. This was the most common ammunition by 1944.

There was a special heat treated version of BR-350B that increased penetration to 87mm and 90mm, respectively.

Sometimes, solid shot AP was used, but that would just barely penetrate a Tiger. Being solid shot, instead of HE filled shell, also means there would be no fragmentation after penetration.

Note: Penetration values are at 0 degrees from the vertical, and given in the book WWII Ballistics.

If you have a credible source that says otherwise, please provide it and we can always cross-check it with our own sources.

Can you maybe show us Battlegroups choice?

I will let Contrivance speak more about balance when he gets back, but hard limits and resource costs will prevent players from spamming Jagdtigers and such.

Time to speak about balance!

Balance is a tricky topic since our approach is quite different from the traditional RTS Gather Resource -> Upgrade Tech -> Build Unit framework that CoH has. We took a more tabletop wargame approach to the gameplay, meaning that we eliminate the majority of the economy and focused more on an attrition model.

What this means is that you won't be capturing territory sectors for resources, but instead capturing them as part of your victory objectives. Your Manpower resource will be the only resource needed to purchase units, but there will be a cap on how much you can earn, and it will steadily trickle in until the cap is hit. Also all your units will have their own hard limits, meaning that you cannot endlessly replace your losses of a specific unit even if you have the Manpower to do so.

Balancing infantry vs tanks is also important, since some Battlegroups will be more infantry-focused and will need to still be viable when facing against massed tank attacks. Fortunately history has already shown that infantry forces can face and defeat tank assaults, so we've been tweaking things towards that. Even Red Army troops armed only with RPG-40 or RPG-43 anti-tank grenades will be a credible threat to a Tiger if it blunders through an ambush without any escort.

As for balancing German ubertech against the Allies' equipment, the unit costs paired up with a more realistic approach to combat should do the trick there. While a Tiger II will be incredibly hard to knock out from the front (though spalling from high caliber HE shells could cause some damage), shots to the side and rear from most medium caliber guns have a much better chance. A single penetrating hit could cripple or even destroy it, and since the Tiger II will be a costly investment, an American or Soviet player can afford to lose a unit or two in the process and still come out ahead. Someone spamming Tiger IIs without any combined arms support is basically begging to lose.


Choosing a Battlegroup is the first thing you have to do, and this choice determines what units you will have available to pick from. Everything not available to the Battlegroup is locked and hidden away in the menus, to keep the clutter to a minimum. Additionally you might have choices to make in regards to certain units, such as what model of Panzer is in that Panzer platoon you want to deploy, or what sort of artillery piece is in the battery you want support from. Choices like these will lock out the other possibilities, so choosing the PzKpfW "Panther" Ausf.G means you won't be able to field the much cheaper PzKpfW IV Ausf.J later. The information on how locks out what, and the unit limits, will be shown and updated in the button itself so that there's no unpleasant surprises.


As for an example of a Battlegroup, one that I'm working on at the moment is the Razvedki Battlegroup. This is styled after the Soviet Reconnaissance units that raced ahead of the main force to gather intelligence and capture objectives by speed and surprise. The main core of it is the infantry of a Razvedki company, which are unique in that they had armoured vehicles to transport their 9-man squad. Since Soviet vehicle production couldn't spare the resources to build armoured transports, Razvedki squads ride in lend-lease M3A1 Scout Cars, Universal Carriers, or captured Sd Kfz 251/1 half-tracks (Motorcycle squads were also available, but unfortunately we don't have a motorcycle with sidecar model). The rest of the Battlegroup consists of fast-moving elements that could keep up with a reconnaissance force, so you'll have tanks, assault guns, motorized and towed guns, and artillery support. Since the core unit is the Razvedki, you will have a limit of 8 squads (one company) rather than just 4 squads (one platoon) which other Battlegroups will be limited to.

The theme of the force is bold and daring attacks mixed with scouting, since Razvedki units did both in equal measure. The Razvedki squads themselves will have both scouting capabilities - allowing them to spot enemies in camouflage as well as make them appear on the minimap outside of your normal view range - and will be very capable soldiers on top of that.

hey guys
I am very impressed with your work, it's amazing !
I am currently in the process of making a realistic mod. I didn't think that a team had embarked on the adventure.
Your fight system for tanks is amazing I didn't know you could do that!

I adjusted my side tanks speeds and speed turrets, do you make that too?

I also have a little gift for you , I don't know if you know this site but it is very useful : http://www.panzerworld.com/vehicles = > very good base given for vehicles and German arms

and notably a small useful tools : http://www.panzerworld.com/relative-armor-calculator

it is a Relative Armor Calculator

good luck for your work ! and sorry for my bad english

I can't wait to play

hey guys
I am very impressed with your work, it's amazing !
I am currently in the process of making a realistic mod. I didn't think that a team had embarked on the adventure.
Your fight system for tanks is amazing I didn't know you could do that!

I adjusted my side tanks speeds and speed turrets, do you make that too?

I also have a little gift for you , I don't know if you know this site but it is very useful : http://www.panzerworld.com/vehicles = > very good base given for vehicles and German arms

and notably a small useful tools : http://www.panzerworld.com/relative-armor-calculator

it is a Relative Armor Calculator

good luck for your work ! and sorry for my bad english

Thanks! There is a realism mod that has been released, called Battleground: Europe, by a friend of ours.

We have historically accurate turret traverse rates.

Thank you for the links. We mostly refer to the book WWII Ballistics as our source, and calculate Effective Resistance based on a number of factors. We have our own calculator, actually:

http://fortresseuropemod.com/calculator

Feel free to use it.

Balancing infantry vs tanks is also important, since some Battlegroups will be more infantry-focused and will need to still be viable when facing against massed tank attacks. Fortunately history has already shown that infantry forces can face and defeat tank assaults, so we've been tweaking things towards that. Even Red Army troops armed only with RPG-40 or RPG-43 anti-tank grenades will be a credible threat to a Tiger if it blunders through an ambush without any escort.


Choosing a Battlegroup is the first thing you have to do, and this choice determines what units you will have available to pick from. Everything not available to the Battlegroup is locked and hidden away in the menus, to keep the clutter to a minimum. Additionally you might have choices to make in regards to certain units, such as what model of Panzer is in that Panzer platoon you want to deploy, or what sort of artillery piece is in the battery you want support from. Choices like these will lock out the other possibilities, so choosing the PzKpfW "Panther" Ausf.G means you won't be able to field the much cheaper PzKpfW IV Ausf.J later. The information on how locks out what, and the unit limits, will be shown and updated in the button itself so that there's no unpleasant surprises.

+1 on that.


HYPE TRAIN is coming

Yeah, I ment APCR, but it's impossible that it couldn't penetrate at 100m with AP, where do you have that data from?

Don't know about Tiger vs T34/76 but King Tiger's front armor was able to bounce 2 Super Pershing's AT shells during city-combat (quite close to each other) so T34/76 unable to penetrate Tiger I front seems quite possible.

and I just uninstalled CoH2

This looks fricking awesome guys, I'm loving what I'm seeing here.

This is what CoH2 should be about!

eliw00d

Only change I don't like that I saw on front page is that infantry will auto-use their AT abilities, this will make LOS-flanking with M3A1s vs Grens worthless.

Everything else looks cool.

Only change I don't like that I saw on front page is that infantry will auto-use their AT abilities, this will make LOS-flanking with M3A1s vs Grens worthless.

Everything else looks cool.

Unlike CoH2, our AT ability weapons, such as the Panzerfaust, will not be 100% accurate.

What this means is that you won't be capturing territory sectors for resources, but instead capturing them as part of your victory objectives. Your Manpower resource will be the only resource needed to purchase units, but there will be a cap on how much you can earn, and it will steadily trickle in until the cap is hit. Also all your units will have their own hard limits, meaning that you cannot endlessly replace your losses of a specific unit even if you have the Manpower to do so.

a suggestion from a old BF1942 mod (Forgotten Hope):

Push mode

A lot of maps can get spoiled by a Rambo in a jeep capping a back flag while everyone else was fighting at the frontline, Push-Mode will prevent this on certain maps. Push-Mode is a feature which was already in Forgotten Hope 0.67a and will continue to focus the action in FH 0.7.



There is an easy way to spot maps with the Push-Mode--your minimap will look different. It has the flags numbered. Your team either needs to attack these flags in numerical order or defend the flags in that order. In some cases, flags cannot be recaptured, once they have been lost to the enemy.


source: http://forgottenhope.warumdarum.de/main.php?module=tutorials&tutorial=1

1v1/2v2 with a large map, with a Push mode can create a new feel for Company of Heroes series

So basically, it's the implementation of World Of Tank realistic armor mechanics, and a lot of historically accurate stuff. Freakin' awesome.

So basically, it's the implementation of World Of Tank realistic armor mechanics, and a lot of historically accurate stuff. Freakin' awesome.

World of Tanks is no where near realistic, but we are definitely going for realism and historical accuracy.

What about the firing ranges of tanks and infantry? Were they adjusted as well or do tanks still only shoot like 100 meters max?

And if so: How do you compensate for the fact that tanks then shoot farther than the screen lenght?

Greetz!

We used to have 100 as the range for all cannons, but in light of dealing with screen dimensions (as you point out) have decided to keep things roughly equivalent to default ranges. There will be some differences, of course, probably resulting in slightly longer ranges. But, things will be fairly consistent based on caliber.

The real problem with using greater ranges is the LOD on the camera. You can only pull back the camera a small amount before shadows flicker or disappear, and models begin dropping detail or outright disappearing.
So we have extended sight and weapon ranges a little bit, but not dramatically. Otherwise a player has to constantly pan the camera around to see what's going on in a fight, and that's pretty awkward.

Side armor exists...

SIDE ARMOR EXISTS

Flanking, angling, etc are actual factors in tank combat...

I cant believe it.

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Tanks in coh2 usually dont bother aiming at anywhere weak when firing on an enemy tank, so is there something that makes tanks try to aim at weak points?
Given that tanks will now actually have different armor values for different areas (like gun mantlets usually being extremely tough, spaced armor, etc) will tanks try to aim at weak points in any way, or will they let shells fly and hit at whatever they were randomly aiming at? (Now that i think about it, tanks in CoH2 never aim at the turret...)