Ostheer Command Bunker

Well its your opinion that its "unfair" not everyone elses. So either take steps to deal with it in game, change faction, or go play something else you think is a better RTS.

+1 to that.

AM is right in saying that forward retreat point's effectiveness and fairness differs extremely greatly depending on the map. On some maps, it allows you to get back in the fight right away when the enemy would need at least a minute.

AM is right in saying that forward retreat point's effectiveness and fairness differs extremely greatly depending on the map. On some maps, it allows you to get back in the fight right away when the enemy would need at least a minute.

Yes. And things get worse in larger game modes. Large snowy maps... Yuck!

A too drastic change. WFA armies need to be different by vanilla armies with everything they can. That involves FRT (forward retreat point) also. And it's not an advantage or a disadvantage. It's a way of playing the game. Vanilla factions have reinforcement on the field (from mobile units - vehicles). WFA factions doesn't have that. So they need to have something in compensation, but different somehow. There you are.

USF has both, ambulance and M3.

Problem with forward points is that foments blobbing and reduces effectiveness of forcing units to retreat. But this is how they were designed :/

On the meantime, i would rather improve counters (LefH and Panzerwerfer) and maybe give some options on the doctrinal units in the case of Vcoh2. Example:

-FHQ
-Replace vet1 (medkits) Arty field officer with a muni ability (something like an AoE on me retreat).
-Commisars.

Although the advantages of retreat points on the front on larger modes remains the same, due to size of the maps.

USF has both, ambulance and M3.

Doctrinal?

Problem with forward points is that foments blobbing and reduces effectiveness of forcing units to retreat. But this is how they were designed :/

On the meantime, i would rather improve counters (LefH and Panzerwerfer) and maybe give some options on the doctrinal units in the case of Vcoh2. Example:

-FHQ
-Replace vet1 (medkits) Arty field officer with a muni ability (something like an AoE on me retreat).
-Commisars.

Although the advantages of retreat points on the front on larger modes remains the same, due to size of the maps.

Kinda agree with what you said, especially with the part with improving counters. What artillery ment in vCoh and what it means in COH2

Nope, this whole forward retreat mechanic is stupid anyway. Mass retreats should be punished.

Why don't you take any parameters in account?


Ostheer can reinforce really soon anywhere in the field (friendly territory only) with sdfk 251 enough resistant to small arms, the unit also act as a really good support unit. in parallel they have medic capabilities with vet1.

Sov can reinforce anywhere with M5 Half-track (friendly territory) + merge but they can't heal on the field.

OKW can deploy a fix truck in the field soon but cannot move it. The truck can reinforce and heal units same of the territory has been decap by the enemy. Most of its units gain a passive heal with veterancy. The truck is immune to small arms fire and have quite a good pool of HP.

USF can heal and reinforce anywhere in the field with the ambulance and use the major as Forwarded retreat point (friendly territory only). The ambulance is slow and easily destroyable by anybody and the major comes really late, it's the latest FRP in the game. Last, ambulance is the only healing supply for USF and both ambulance + Major cost a ton of manpower only for that)


...............Reinforce........Heal............FRP
Ostheer............X............X(vet1)..........-
Soviet.............X.............................-(only with a commander)
OKW................X............X(+vet)..........X (but fix position)
USF................X............X................X (but late during the game and cost manpower)

Not considering the FW commander for Sov, Sov is the least faction able to reinforce during the game. Merge is interesting but it is not really a reinforce in term of buying unit on the field.
Ostheer is next but have the faster reinforce unit, mobile and enough strong to stay in the front line same if some light tank comes the way, vet1 provides healing capabilities to his mainforce. USF is 3rd, can reinforce and heal really quickly with the ambulance, but the unit have heavy drawbacks, slow and killable by anything. Last the OKW, they have everything, only drawback, the truck can't be move.

My opinion, as mainly USF player is its only a matter to know when and how to soft retreat your units. Soviet is the most complicated because you need to have some conscript to do it and create a kind of supply line. But for all other faction, USF, OKW and Ostheer, its primarily and only a question of soft retreat skills.

i could see it being okay, but it would need to cost fuel

and the sovies forward headquaters needs to be removed from the doctrine and made a upgrade at the HQ reguardless of commander, for fuel of course.

@Esxile
Halftrucks can reinforce anywhere, you don't need to be on friendly sectors. That applies exclusively to ambulance.

i could see it being okay, but it would need to cost fuel

and the sovies forward headquaters needs to be removed from the doctrine and made a upgrade at the HQ reguardless of commander, for fuel of course.

I would raiser remove the FRP option for both OKW and USF faction. Leaving the ambulance and medic truck as healing/reinforcement platform but requiring soft retreat.

Anyway, that's never going to happen

As much as I would love to see FRPs removed, Major would have to become Major Buff (see the pun? DO YOU SEE IT GOD DAMMIT!?) and I don't really have any idea of how could that be changed for OKW.

Nothing encourages and rewards blobbing while greatly mitigating bad decision and ensuring field presence like hard Forward Retreat Points. On field you should always soft retreat or bail back to your base. I don't see soviets running to FHQ despite it having twice the medics, aura and reinforcing ability.

+1 Esxile.

Awesome post, so good to see someone analysing the Factions differences objectively and not complaining about them.

As much as I would love to see FRPs removed, Major would have to become Major Buff (see the pun? DO YOU SEE IT GOD DAMMIT!?) and I don't really have any idea of how could that be changed for OKW.

Nothing encourages and rewards blobbing while greatly mitigating bad decision and ensuring field presence like hard Forward Retreat Points. On field you should always soft retreat or bail back to your base. I don't see soviets running to FHQ despite it having twice the medics, aura and reinforcing ability.

I think I have already expose an idea of what could replace the FRP for the major, like an ability to call a unit to him (with a cooldown - something similar to "on me"). So instead of retreating to the Major, you retreat to your base and from your base, you're able to speed up a unit to him.
So you need to keep the major next to the frontline.

There is a last argument, but I fear to be considerate as USF fanboi with it. Anyway, since it's only for discussion...
I think USF could be the only faction with the FRP ability. Why? simply because it is the only faction that need to come back to its base to equip zooks and BARs.
If USF lose its FRP, BARs and Zooks should become accessible as individual update. You buy it from the base, but you can upgrade it anywhere on the field for free.

Sov can reinforce anywhere with M5 Half-track (friendly territory) + merge but they can't heal on the field.

But there is one problem with it.

Ambulance/251/Med truck - in fact you dont sacrafice anything.
You always have access to Ambu or 251 and at some point you have to make med truck but Soviets need to sacrafice Katy and SU. It's like taking 251 would mean that you are resigning from Panzer IV or Panther/Brrumbar/PzWefer in teamgames since in 1v1...

Yes but soviets dont struggle without HT reinforce. They dont need to maintain field presence like Werh. If they get pushed off they can just come again for another wave.

Also you can just have a squad constantly merging team weapons etc and retreating to reinforce, which takes slightly more micro, but costs zero fuel and carries less risk.

But there is one problem with it.

Ambulance/251/Med truck - in fact you dont sacrafice anything.
You always have access to Ambu or 251 and at some point you have to make med truck but Soviets need to sacrafice Katy and SU. It's like taking 251 would mean that you are resigning from Panzer IV or Panther/Brrumbar/PzWefer in teamgames since in 1v1...

I know that, Sov has probably the worst reinforcement system. But merge is free with any cons squad you build. There is somewhere a balance with that. And also Sov tech system being crappy. But this is not exactly a issue localized only with reinforcement on the field ability.

Unlike many say here, I'm not sure at all FRP is a cause of blob. I mean I have seen many USF players blobbing in 4vs4 and really few of them were actually using the major as rally point (too complicated). What makes blob effective is the lack of upkeep system coupled with good AI-AT power.

Kinda agree with what you said, especially with the part with improving counters. What artillery ment in vCoh and what it means in COH2

Vcoh2: referring to SU + OH

Why don't you take any parameters in account?


Ostheer can reinforce really soon anywhere in the field (friendly territory only) with sdfk 251

Excellent Summary

However Ostheer also have Medic Bunker and Reinforce bunker as an option