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Time to diversify vet abilities for vCoH2 factions.
Unit in question: Penals.
Right now most of the SU infantry has access to trip wire flares. While not totally useless, it's a bit lazy design wise (same with medkits for OH).
Following the flavour (ingame, plz don't bring history debate) of "suicide" squads, i've in the past advocate for a zeal like ability.
For those who haven't played coh1 zeal is a passive ability which grants increases combat effectiveness as men die.
I know this mechanic is not present right now, but i'm confident that it could be applied since it's in coh1.
Vet1: removes tripwire. Replace it with hoorah (moved from vet2)
Vet2: Zeal. For each entity missing, give X buff.
While i'm not mentioning exact stats, my main concern is the concept. Values can be changed accordingly to not overperfom.
For reference (and i know it's a different game), this is what i found to be coh1 Wehr Zeal.
Vet abilities - Penals - Zeal
17 Mar 2015, 19:53 PM
#1
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
17 Mar 2015, 20:06 PM
#2
Posts: 2053
Conscripts in early CoH2 had this "zeal" ability for 5 muni for every guy that dies, all conscripts around gain accuracy.
17 Mar 2015, 20:14 PM
#3
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Conscripts in early CoH2 had this "zeal" ability for 5 muni for every guy that dies, all conscripts around gain accuracy.
EVERY Soviet infantry unit had that if I recall correctly.
And they also only gained armour from veterancy, so German players had no good reason to attack veteran Soviet infantry over the other ones at all.
17 Mar 2015, 20:15 PM
#4
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
+1
Tripwire Mines makes me sad.
I accept any replacement of those.
Tripwire Mines makes me sad.
I accept any replacement of those.
17 Mar 2015, 20:22 PM
#5
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
EVERY Soviet infantry unit had that if I recall correctly.
And they also only gained armour from veterancy, so German players had no good reason to attack veteran Soviet infantry over the other ones at all.
All units got armor back then.
And they got armor at vet3, at vet2 they got accuracy+small armor bonus that added up with vet3 was still inferior to what grens got.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Mar 2015, 20:28 PM
#6
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
All units got armor back then.
And they got armor at vet3, at vet2 they got accuracy+small armor bonus that added up with vet3 was still inferior to what grens got.
No, I'm pretty sure the text said they only got armour (which frankly could have totally lied) at the time they had the Inspire (pretty sure that was what it was called) ability. It was definitely changed to that later though.
17 Mar 2015, 20:43 PM
#7
Posts: 656
I believe relic did away with zeal on conscripts (and focus fire on grens) because they originally wanted vet abilities to be utility oriented instead of combat oriented. That and those two abilities encouraged players to use them every single fight. Since the AA armies have changed that dynamic zeal would make an excellent passive vet ability for Penals. It really plays to their theme of suicide troops.
17 Mar 2015, 21:07 PM
#8
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
deleted
17 Mar 2015, 21:24 PM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
No, I'm pretty sure the text said they only got armour (which frankly could have totally lied) at the time they had the Inspire (pretty sure that was what it was called) ability. It was definitely changed to that later though.
The text lied.
Inspire I remember though.
It actually suits perfectly penals theme.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
17 Mar 2015, 21:26 PM
#10
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
The text lied.
Inspire I remember though.
It actually suits perfectly penals theme.
Then thank god they didn't screw up that badly.
17 Mar 2015, 21:27 PM
#11
Posts: 449
I miss that crawling wire. I wish they'd tried harder to balance it instead of just dropping it altogether.
17 Mar 2015, 21:50 PM
#12
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently BannedI think zeal is more appropriate on conscripts rather than penals IMO.
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
18 Mar 2015, 00:34 AM
#13
4 
Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2
sound fitting and fun.
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18 Mar 2015, 01:38 AM
#14
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I believe relic did away with zeal on conscripts (and focus fire on grens) because they originally wanted vet abilities to be utility oriented instead of combat oriented. That and those two abilities encouraged players to use them every single fight. Since the AA armies have changed that dynamic zeal would make an excellent passive vet ability for Penals. It really plays to their theme of suicide troops.
Exactly. Vanilla factions need a review after WFA came out.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Mar 2015, 07:46 AM
#15
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Agree. But not for penals. For cons.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
18 Mar 2015, 15:57 PM
#16
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Agree. But not for penals. For cons.
Mind you explain.
There are almost no reason to get penals instead of conscripts (besides the niche use of satchel). While RNG can screw you up, flamer duty is accomplished by cheaper CE.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Mar 2015, 16:21 PM
#17
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently Banned
Mind you explain.
There are almost no reason to get penals instead of conscripts (besides the niche use of satchel). While RNG can screw you up, flamer duty is accomplished by cheaper CE.
Mind you that penals are a lot better with vet than with cons. The only thing cons are really better for is AT nades and I think long range dps. Penals with flames are leagues better at close mid with flamethrowers that cannot explode and oorah at vet 2.
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
18 Mar 2015, 19:27 PM
#18
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Mind you that penals are a lot better with vet than with cons. The only thing cons are really better for is AT nades and I think long range dps. Penals with flames are leagues better at close mid with flamethrowers that cannot explode and oorah at vet 2.
I guess you can say that by the experience of using them, right?
They just outperform cons at 0-10, doing +2 DPS more than Rifles (while costing the same) but losing heavily from 10-35. They also reinforce more expensive than cons.
If you go 2+ Penals you are gonna regret it later on due to LMGs, Flak/Luch or any medium tank.
Theres a reason con spam works, and not so Penal spam (Redwing doesnt count
)Anyways, this is not a con vs Penal overlapping roles thread, rather than making units a bit more distinctive, specially on the veterancy department.
I think tripwire/medkits (if they change it a bit) are fine for engineers and basic infantry, making it a default for utility (Penals/AssGren) or elite infantry not so much.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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