Schwerer so broken, will it be fixed in the upcoming patch?

Uhm no. If you place a med truck you better believe that i take into consideration if the allies have access to 120 mm or even worse b4's. and i have seen some okw players losing several k's worth in mp because of squad wipes at their medtruck.

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Same could be done when you retreat to your base sector, so med truck has nothing to do with it.
And if we are talking about certain doctrines that can AoE your retreat point - CAS doctrine have recon plane, stuka dive bomb and ability to get resources to use them, so squad wipes at retreat point isn't something special that only OKW suffers from.

I have to say that I'm still convinced that only BAD OKW or USF players suffer from forward retreat, healing and reinforcement point. For example, the ones who carelessly BLOBS right into your MGs, then, unable to control units separately, he MASS RETREATS, exposing whole their army to a single AoE ability.

So, if you agree that I deflected your argument, there is no disadvantages in forward retreat/reinforce/healing in particular and free bonuses with teching in general, that smart experienced player couldn't avoid.

There is nothing wrong with forward retreat points, no matter what map you are playing. It involves strategic decisions and come also with disadvantages. This game isn't and should not be all about micro. It should involve brains also. If a player succeed to beat the other just because he made better decisions despite his inferior micro, we should value that.
Such are all the complaints related to different "exploits" like blobbing or placing the OKW T4 or whatever. If your opponent blobbed the shit out of you and you had enough amo to place let's say, several demo charges on his path but you didn't, you have no right to complain that he is a noob and beated you because he is a gardening spammer. If you are complaining that your opponent built shermans to fast and killed your volks blobs that could not handle them with their schrecks, but you didn't chose the fortifications doctrine (PAK 43) though you had it in your loadout, you have no right to complain that you didn't have fuel to build enough vehicles to counter your opponent. And the list can continue. Sometimes good decisions are more valuable than micro. And a well placed retreat point is a good decision, though risky. Because forward retreat points can be shelled like hell with ballistics that will do alot of damage. You knew that, I suppose.

This still does not justify forward retreat points for the new armies. The post above you is absolutely right, certain maps gives the new army advantage (large maps) while vanilla factions take forever. This simple mechanic can make difference between capping the entire map with ease while vanillas take longer time. Micro, Sherman and Blobs have nothing to do with this, these actions are dependent on tech speed and tactical play.

Same could be done when you retreat to your base sector, so med truck has nothing to do with it.
And if we are talking about certain doctrines that can AoE your retreat point - CAS doctrine have recon plane, stuka dive bomb and ability to get resources to use them, so squad wipes at retreat point isn't something special that only OKW suffers from.

I have to say that I'm still convinced that only BAD OKW or USF players suffer from forward retreat, healing and reinforcement point. For example, the ones who carelessly BLOBS right into your MGs, then, unable to control units separately, he MASS RETREATS, exposing whole their army to a single AoE ability.

So, if you agree that I deflected your argument, there is no disadvantages in forward retreat/reinforce/healing in particular and free bonuses with teching in general, that smart experienced player couldn't avoid.

Yeah ostheer doesnt have unlimited ammo even with cas and most non mobile arty cannot reach the enemies base. your points are invalid next argument plz

This still does not justify forward retreat points for the new armies. The post above you is absolutely right, certain maps gives the new army advantage (large maps) while vanilla factions take forever. This simple mechanic can make difference between capping the entire map with ease while vanillas take longer time. Micro, Sherman and Blobs have nothing to do with this, these actions are dependent on tech speed and tactical play.

You forget that he vanilla factions have mobile reinforcement halftracks. something the wfa armies do not have. each has it strengths and weaknesses

Yeah ostheer doesnt have unlimited ammo even with cas and most non mobile arty cannot reach the enemies base. your points are invalid next argument plz

With CAS I usualy float with constant 150-200 (1v1) up to even 1000 in 4v4

You forget that he vanilla factions have mobile reinforcement halftracks. something the wfa armies do not have. each has it strengths and weaknesses

Ambulance, while works only on friendly territory and is a bitch to micro can count as mobile reinforcement.
There is also USF M3 transporter which can reinforce.

Same could be done when you retreat to your base sector, so med truck has nothing to do with it.

The B4 would have to be very aggressively placed for reaching base. It's not likely.

I have to say that I'm still convinced that only BAD OKW or USF players suffer from forward retreat, healing and reinforcement point. For example, the ones who carelessly BLOBS right into your MGs, then, unable to control units separately, he MASS RETREATS, exposing whole their army to a single AoE ability.

Agreed. Or let's call it the less than great players.

You forget that he vanilla factions have mobile reinforcement halftracks. something the wfa armies do not have. each has it strengths and weaknesses

Yes, but you cannot retreat to the HT. You have to take a risk and micro your wounded squad to the HT or vice versa, plus they have no heal capabilities.

There is nothing wrong with forward retreat points, no matter what map you are playing. It involves strategic decisions and come also with disadvantages. This game isn't and should not be all about micro. It should involve brains also. If a player succeed to beat the other just because he made better decisions despite his inferior micro, we should value that.
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Sometimes good decisions are more valuable than micro. And a well placed retreat point is a good decision, though risky. Because forward retreat points can be shelled like hell with ballistics that will do alot of damage. You knew that, I suppose.

Strategic decisions: WHERE should I place my retreat point on map? Closer to my base?Closer to his? Closer to a cutoff? Closer to a resources/victory point , etc. Should I shield it with a house or with some trees? How to place it in order for retreating units to easily access it?

Disadvantages: An advanced retreat point can be shelled with balistic weapons that can be placed verry safe (NEAR or even IN your opponent base). An advanced retreat point can be shelled with off maps and can be easilly spoted in order to. Finally, an advanced retreat point can be stormed in team games by 2-3 armies in the same time, and be made one with the ground with all retreated units.

problem is, forward retreat point isn't too much of a brain work to be rewarded with 30 second back-to-the-field ability for whomever is using it. imo.

when i see okw player suddenly mass retreating ~5 min mark, i know hes got a forward retreat point up that i cannot do anything about until late game arties like katusha or priest. it is hilarious how ppl suggest mortars, atg, smoke and demo (requires 3 btw lolz!). obviously, that only works against super agro noob okw players. so basically, because okw bothered to use his brain for 1 sec, he gets to shave seconds after seconds until mid-late game.

when i see usf player suddenly mass retreat post 10 min mark, i know hes got a forward retreat point up. while more vulnerable, it can move and when used right, those rifles will always be on the field in 20 seconds.

i am guessing when you said advanced retreat point can be shelled with ballistic weapons in the base, i am assuming you meant 120mm in 1v1 setting.

then you talk about how it can be rushed in team games. in my many many experience, this usually happens when the axis are already beat to hell. if they are not and you try to go for their med base, you will end up losing more than what you bargained for since your flanks will be more vulnerable and other axis teammate coming to help will have easier time picking allies off.

Yes, but you cannot retreat to the HT. You have to take a risk and micro your wounded squad to the HT or vice versa, plus they have no heal capabilities.

Their are strong points and weak points for both setups. the ability to reinforce in enemy territory while you just secured a capture point can be a real game changer.

Ambulance, while works only on friendly territory and is a bitch to micro can count as mobile reinforcement.
There is also USF M3 transporter which can reinforce.

The ambulance is a bitch to micro if you leave it way to close to the enemy lines.

Same could be done when you retreat to your base sector, so med truck has nothing to do with it.
And if we are talking about certain doctrines that can AoE your retreat point - CAS doctrine have recon plane, stuka dive bomb and ability to get resources to use them, so squad wipes at retreat point isn't something special that only OKW suffers from.

I have to say that I'm still convinced that only BAD OKW or USF players suffer from forward retreat, healing and reinforcement point. For example, the ones who carelessly BLOBS right into your MGs, then, unable to control units separately, he MASS RETREATS, exposing whole their army to a single AoE ability.

This is missing a fairly critical point that placing a medi HQ down allows your opponent to zero in on your position, a big obvious fat truck marker on the map means you will always know were your opponent is retreating to.

With the current buggy as shit retreating mechanics it's fairly easy to take advantage of it to wipe entire armies using artillery.

At this point I don't really care that the Vanilla factions don't have forward retreat, as they have many things the WFA factions don't, very very important things like support weapons, artillery, ect.

The ambulance is a bitch to micro if you leave it way to close to the enemy lines.

Ambulance is a bitch to micro, because its a CAR that have mobility of JAGDTIGER while having less durability then Rear Echelon squad.

You never fail to completely ignore real problems and make up more bs.

Ambulance is a bitch to micro, because its a CAR that have mobility of JAGDTIGER while having less durability then Rear Echelon squad.

You never fail to completely ignore real problems and make up more bs.

Also because like everything kills it in around two seconds.

Ambulance is a bitch to micro, because its a CAR that have mobility of JAGDTIGER while having less durability then Rear Echelon squad.

You never fail to completely ignore real problems and make up more bs.

Yes and? It's not a front line unit, if your sitting it close enough that the enemy can hit the issue with you risking it to much.

I do think it should be a faster, but it doesn't need more armor, it's a fucking truck.

USF forward retreat is much easier to deal with then OKW's. It only takes 1 infantry squad to kill the truck and major pretty quickly and on a full retreat there's nothing stopping you from giving chase and forcing the whole army back to base.

OKW's seems like it has disadvantages on paper, until you remember it's usually protected by a giant, long range, infatry and light vehicle decimating machine that keeps any sort of harassment away from it. In most my games it usually takes multiple full routs from the okw player before the medic truck is in any danger. Atleast before multiple tanks hit the field. It really screws with supposed US mobility when your enemy has a no go huge base in the middle of the map with easy access to anywhere on the map.

The thing is you can move your ambulence, and it doesn't make units and it doesn't cost 40 fuel. The disadvantage of the BG HQ is that it tells your enemy exactly were you will be once you retreat, and it allows you to zero in on him with indirect fire.

You can move your forward retreat point around as USF, once you put that truck down as OKW that's it for you.

The thing is you can move your ambulence, and it doesn't make units and it doesn't cost 40 fuel. The disadvantage of the BG HQ is that it tells your enemy exactly were you will be once you retreat, and it allows you to zero in on him with indirect fire.

You can move your forward retreat point around as USF, once you put that truck down as OKW that's it for you.

What indirect fire? Pack Howitzer?, Mortar Halftrack?, Greyhound?(both doctrinal) also what makes you think you'll always have indirect setup and ready to fire once he retreats?

Yes they can move it, but while they are doing that their units are vulnerable to a full retreat. Not to mention even a light vehicle like the 222 can chase it down very easily. And while soviets might have katyushas and 120s, US options are less viable. Pack howitzer can't hit anything through the fog of war, and M8 wont be able to reach if it's behind a flak truck. Their heavier options won't come out til atleast 9cp.

I play a lot of US, even when I intentionally create builds designed to take out the buildings I still struggle in taking them out. I wish it was possible to just avoid them, but with how effective a well placed medic hq and flak hq is, taken them out is usually a necessity if you even want to have a chance to win in the long run.

What indirect fire? Pack Howitzer?, Mortar Halftrack?, Greyhound?(both doctrinal) also what makes you think you'll always have indirect setup and ready to fire once he retreats?

Precisely. This "Indirect fire" thing is being parroted around by the standing members of the Axis Anti Nerf Committee, when they really mean to say is howitzers. The 120mm mortar also does wonders.
But this only applies to Soviets and 1/6th of US commanders. By the time I have significant indirect fire (howitzers or powerful offmaps), I will also have tanks, call-ins, AT guns. I don't need help at this phase. I want to know what to do about the Schwerer in minute 8 of the game.

And even so, let's say people use howitzers, AT guns, offmaps etc - so now we have used ammo, manpower, teching, fuel, all to remove a structure from the battlefield. What about opportunity costs? While you are investing resources and time, I assume the OKW enemy is kind enough to have units of comparable manpower cost simply idle around and do nothing? When I build a T4 as Soviet, it does not present an inconvenience on the map and OKW doesn't have to allocate resources just to remove it or lose access to a portion of the map.

I will remind you that Sov tier buildings are more expensive, offer about the same in terms of unlocked units, but none of the advantages. Trying to pass a forward HQ, a fortification and a repair center as a weakness instead of an immense strength of the faction is asinine. Nothing prevents you from putting all your buildings at the base just as every other faction has to, and still have a more useful, cheaper base, with inbuilt repair and medic functions. Literally anything you do beyond that is a bonus, an OPTION, a glorious possibility that you have that no other faction has. If you choose to use this option, you enter the realm of risk/reward mechanic. Except the risk is relatively small, and the rewards immense. Worst case scenario - the building goes down. So? you lost roughly a Puma's worth of resources to occupy a significant portion of opponent's firepower for a prolonged period of time.

Now, I personally like the different flavours of each faction, and it's nice to have OKW differ in this aspect. But you can't really complain about forward positions being exposed to artillery. Yes, we know they are. It's because you choose to put them there even though you could have put them in the base and still be no worse than all other factions.

Precisely. This "Indirect fire" thing is being parroted around by the standing members of the Axis Anti Nerf Committee, when they really mean to say is howitzers. The 120mm mortar also does wonders.
But this only applies to Soviets and 1/6th of US commanders. By the time I have significant indirect fire (howitzers or powerful offmaps), I will also have tanks, call-ins, AT guns. I don't need help at this phase. I want to know what to do about the Schwerer in minute 8 of the game.

And even so, let's say people use howitzers, AT guns, offmaps etc - so now we have used ammo, manpower, teching, fuel, all to remove a structure from the battlefield. What about opportunity costs? While you are investing resources and time, I assume the OKW enemy is kind enough to have units of comparable manpower cost simply idle around and do nothing? When I build a T4 as Soviet, it does not present an inconvenience on the map and OKW doesn't have to allocate resources just to remove it or lose access to a portion of the map.

I will remind you that Sov tier buildings are more expensive, offer about the same in terms of unlocked units, but none of the advantages. Trying to pass a forward HQ, a fortification and a repair center as a weakness instead of an immense strength of the faction is asinine. Nothing prevents you from putting all your buildings at the base just as every other faction has to, and still have a more useful, cheaper base, with inbuilt repair and medic functions. Literally anything you do beyond that is a bonus, an OPTION, a glorious possibility that you have that no other faction has. If you choose to use this option, you enter the realm of risk/reward mechanic. Except the risk is relatively small, and the rewards immense. Worst case scenario - the building goes down. So? you lost roughly a Puma's worth of resources to occupy a significant portion of opponent's firepower for a prolonged period of time.

Now, I personally like the different flavours of each faction, and it's nice to have OKW differ in this aspect. But you can't really complain about forward positions being exposed to artillery. Yes, we know they are. It's because you choose to put them there even though you could have put them in the base and still be no worse than all other factions.

This. Everything in this.

So much about OKW right now can be described with their risk/reward factor being much more reward then risk.

The only thing USF can do against the OKW fortress at the 8 min mark is bring at guns which is completely useless if it's behind a shotblocker and extremely hard to protect while it kills the structure. I have just given up on this as 80% of attempts to destroy the flak medic combo ends with me giving a free AT gun to my enemy.