Five man grenadier squads are exactly what Ostheer need.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it isn't anymore, the measures they take nowadays to prevent ammo cook-off if the tank gets destroyed probably also applies to the case of molotov cocktails. I'm also told it especially wouldn't work on an Abrams on account of hitting its engine wouldn't do harm it at all because the damn thing already burns hotter than any molotov could (also, guzzles gas like a frat boy on beer, but that's besides the point).

Yeah, abrams diesel engine which rotates the turret burns like hell and thats exactly why it will get overheated if thrown by a molotov

The only thing that stops LMG blobs atm is the fact gren squads are 4 men so have to retreat fast upon being hit by indirect fire. 5 men gren squads will be completely overpowered and will kill anything in their path.

The only thing that stops LMG blobs atm is the fact gren squads are 4 men so have to retreat fast upon being hit by indirect fire. 5 men gren squads will be completely overpowered and will kill anything in their path.

Yeah, soviet sniper will be another non-usefull soviet stock unit.

Never gonna happen. Grens can be reinforced on-the-fly from a HT behind a wall or a command bunker from behind the damn wall (Fix that relic).

Its cons which need a buff. They are useless late game in which they become a merely caping unit.

Sovits are the strongest faction at the moment for a number of reasons. Any buff to cons without some kind of redesign would make soviets batshit OP. I would like cons to be relevant late game from a design perspective but without changing other aspects of the game it would simply lead to more spam based strats.

The problem with grens is how prone they can be to squadwipes. Changing to five man squads will simply lead to more gren heavy builds which should be avoided. Relic have a problem in that grens need to scale well to compensate for the bullshit wipes but not so good that other ost units are irrelevant. The thing is if ost player is lucky rng wise and can keep squads alive then chances off winning are significantly improved. However should whole squads be lost early to morter strike, m3 flame car or mimes then ost is significantly behind. Other game mechanics being changed would be better than just adding an extra man.

Lastly grens not being able to build green cover is a major design flar. It may not have been necessary upon release but the game has changed since then and its omission is now stark.

Yeah, abrams diesel engine which rotates the turret burns like hell and thats exactly why it will get overheated if thrown by a molotov

you realize the engine on an abrams isnt directly exposed? Even then all newer models have slat armor protecting the engine block anyway.....

Ostheer have problems at the moment but there is no way Grens need this buff. They are cheap, versatile, have good vet bonuses (as well as vetting up quickly), and have extremely useful abilities/upgrades which don't take much to unlock and are non-doctrinal. Some people seem to think their versatility means that they should be able to take on any unit type and do all the heavy lifting for OH but that is not their purpose; they are meant to be support the faction's other units and with their panzerfausts they do this better than any other infantry.

As others have already mentioned the problems with OH lie elsewhere. I believe all buffing grens would do is increase the incentive to spam them, push under-performing units further into obscurity, and make skipping teching and waiting for call-ins even more prevalent. On the one hand if stats of each model stayed the same it would require a cost increase which would further compound the problems OH has getting units out in the early game. On the other hand if stats were decreased to keep overall squad health & DPS the same that could be a positive change but it wouldn't go very far towards giving OH more options or improving their viability 1v1.

I agree that squad-wiping feels too frequent and random at the moment and the smaller squad sizes of Grens means they are more vulnerable to it than other infantry. However the squad wiping issue is due to squad bunching in combination with the lack of effective allied options for combating infantry blobs, which forces them to rely on indirect fire and armour with squad-wiping capabilities. Without squad wiping AoE weapons allies (especially Soviets) are totally outmatched axis infantry in the late game, and for that reason squad wiping does have its place in the current meta.

Increasing squad size is a band-aid fix which would might improve the viability of OH but would force players to rely more on their basic infantry, an idea which goes against the philosophy of the faction (not to mention make is less enjoyable to play as and against). It would be much better addressed by increasing the usefulness of other underperforming OH units or fixing those factors which contribute to the current AoE/squad-wiping meta.

Sovits are the strongest faction at the moment for a number of reasons.

You've spelled OKW wrong.

you realize the engine on an abrams isnt directly exposed? Even then all newer models have slat armor protecting the engine block anyway.....

How about I throw three molotovs? wont it get overheated then? Sure it will

If you can successfully lob 3 Molotov cocktails at close range into the engine block of an M1A3 then you deserve to be awarded an order of Lenin from the ghost of Stalin himself.

You've spelled OKW wrong.

Another insightful contribution.

I agree that squad-wiping feels too frequent and random at the moment and the smaller squad sizes of Grens means they are more vulnerable to it than other infantry. However the squad wiping issue is due to squad bunching in combination with the lack of effective allied options for combating infantry blobs, which forces them to rely on indirect fire and armour with squad-wiping capabilities. Without squad wiping AoE weapons allies (especially Soviets) are totally outmatched axis infantry in the late game, and for that reason squad wiping does have its place in the current meta.

I agree squadwipes keep a match semi balanced. But it is heavily rng based. If they can get a handle on the squadwipes then they look at improving allies infantry so that there isn't such a reliance on indirect fire and cheese mechanics...

But i would be surprised is anything was changed regarding squadwipes because it really only affects/annoys a small percentage of their customers.

I agree that squad-wiping feels too frequent and random at the moment and the smaller squad sizes of Grens means they are more vulnerable to it than other infantry. However the squad wiping issue is due to squad bunching in combination with the lack of effective allied options for combating infantry blobs, which forces them to rely on indirect fire and armour with squad-wiping capabilities. Without squad wiping AoE weapons allies (especially Soviets) are totally outmatched axis infantry in the late game, and for that reason squad wiping does have its place in the current meta.

What axis infantry are u talking abt?U bringing obers into OH problem?AGAIN?
U think LMG grens totally outmatch shocks?1919,paras or lategame dual bar rifles?
Totally false.
If grens don't get 5 men panzergrenadiers certainly should at 340 mp AND CRIPPLING REINFORCE,1 SHOTTING THAT PLUS 120 MUNI INVESTMENT IS BROKEN.Pzgrens are shit,not spammable and rolled over by allied infantry..yet they are supposed to be advanced ost infantry.Good joke.

What axis infantry are u talking abt?U bringing obers into OH problem?AGAIN?
U think LMG grens totally outmatch shocks?1919,paras or lategame dual bar rifles?
Totally false.
If grens don't get 5 men panzergrenadiers certainly should at 340 mp AND CRIPPLING REINFORCE,1 SHOTTING THAT PLUS 120 MUNI INVESTMENT IS BROKEN.Pzgrens are shit,not spammable and rolled over by allied infantry..yet they are supposed to be advanced ost infantry.Good joke.

Perhaps 'totally outmatched' was an overstatement on my part, but all those things you mentioned are highly specialised and/or resource-intensive methods of dealing with a general-purpose unit. Anyway that's beside the point, the fact remains that many players see AoE as playing too much of a role in the allies anti-infantry game at the moment and if you make changes to reduce its effectiveness you will need to make changes somewhere else to accommodate. As I already said I don't see buffing grens as the right way forward for Ostheer.

I kind of agree with you in regards to the panzergrenadier comment in that they're a unit which isn't worth its cost in most circumstances, although as with grens I think just adding an extra squad member is not the right way to balance the unit.

If Relic would only fix formations... Would fix a lot in the game. No one shotted squads anymore. Dreams

If Relic would only fix formations... Would fix a lot in the game. No one shotted squads anymore. Dreams

They have said "spread formations or good cover seeking, can't do both" something like that once.

Makes one wonder why paras can do both without imploding.

They have said "spread formations or good cover seeking, can't do both" something like that once.

Makes one wonder why paras can do both without imploding.

Thats nonsense indeed. Screwed around with Mod Tools a while ago and edited formations. Cover system still worked fine... They are just too lazy to adjust it

Squad formations:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/30005/coh2-squad-formations/page/1

Yeah I like them as 4 man squad. An they are pretty good despite that. diff unit should be changed imo

Thats nonsense indeed. Screwed around with Mod Tools a while ago and edited formations. Cover system still worked fine... They are just too lazy to adjust it

Squad formations:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/30005/coh2-squad-formations/page/1

O_O

WHAT A GLORIOUS MOD YOU HAVE THERE!

You should somehow make Relic to see that. I'm serious.

O_O

WHAT A GLORIOUS MOD YOU HAVE THERE!

You should somehow make Relic to see that. I'm serious.

Cruzz did spread formations quite some time as well.

This is simple case of relic being lazy.

Thats nonsense indeed. Screwed around with Mod Tools a while ago and edited formations. Cover system still worked fine... They are just too lazy to adjust it

Squad formations:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/30005/coh2-squad-formations/page/1

Very nice,and very embarassing for relic.

Very nice,and very embarassing for relic.

lol like they care